The only thing they left out in the article is what the effect of pollutants like BPA have on the birthrate. Currently, BPA, an artificial estrogen, is nearly everywhere from food, receipts, and now even clothing. PFAS, BPS, and a host of other pollutants are almost as widespread in many countries that experienced any decent amount of industrialization
This explanation may make sense if people were complaining about an inability to have kids despite wanting them. But physical infertility is not alleged here.
How South Korea’s birth rate dropped below Japan’s
71–80 of 439 posts
Re: How South Korea’s birth rate dropped below Japan’s
#72Earlier quoted context omitted.
How did we end up at a point where creating life (literally) is a „not good enough reason“?
We've allowed everything in life to be assigned a monetary value and it turns out that kids have a very low RoI
it's going to be a sad, empty and quiet world in the west a few decades in the future.
Re: How South Korea’s birth rate dropped below Japan’s
#73I think all these studies skirt very gingerly around a big problem. Stressful work culture, lack of support for families (includes high real-estate costs, long commute times, lack of sick leave, etc.) and most importantly a path for women (and men - but its mostly women) who drop out of the workforce and want to get back in once the children are older and more independent. Child rearing takes a group of people not ju…
How did we end up at a point where creating life (literally) is a „not good enough reason“?
Re: How South Korea’s birth rate dropped below Japan’s
#74Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Capitalism. The problem is capitalism. Not capitalism but the unfettered capitalism without protection for workers. In a system where humans are treated as "input" for the big machine without income security, said humans will not produce more burden unto themselves. If having a kid increases the risk of destitution, the rational human will choose to not have them (or at least not have more than 1).
I would like to sympathize with that opinion, but as a matter of fact also countries with strong worker protections and a pretty decent social security system are suffering from birth rates below replacement.
Re: How South Korea’s birth rate dropped below Japan’s
#75[flagged]
My impression was that in the US the housing crisis was caused by regulatory burden, zoning laws and nimbyism. Is there clear evidence of US housing problems stemming from capitalism?
The real problem here is that housing became financialized (like every aspect of our lives). People see their $300k house go up in value to $600k and think they've made money. But have they? You still need a place to live. If every house that cost $300k now costs $600k, you still only have one house unit of wealth. So what have you really gained?
One extension of this is you decide you need to own multiple properties. You need to become a landlord. For many, this is their retirement. But what is being a landlord? It's withholding a basic human need (ie shelter) for profit. it's choosing to let people die on the streets if it makes you money.
So this system only really benefits the truly wealthy to accumulate wealth by extracting wealth through rent at the threat of violence. Eviction is violence. Witholding shelter is violence.
Now this might be fine if the government provided a baseline for shelter through what is most commonly referred to as "social housing". Americans, in particular, who hear this think "projects" or "ghettoes" (ie Section 8 Housing) but look at a city like Vienna where ~60% (IIRC) of the housing is owned by the government [1].
But we don't have such a aystem in the US because it would reduce profits. It would reduce the extraction of wealth from workers. This is capitalism.
Re: How South Korea’s birth rate dropped below Japan’s
#76Earlier quoted context omitted.
How did we end up at a point where creating life (literally) is a „not good enough reason“?
We've allowed everything in life to be assigned a monetary value and it turns out that kids have a very low RoI
Re: How South Korea’s birth rate dropped below Japan’s
#77I think all these studies skirt very gingerly around a big problem. Stressful work culture, lack of support for families (includes high real-estate costs, long commute times, lack of sick leave, etc.) and most importantly a path for women (and men - but its mostly women) who drop out of the workforce and want to get back in once the children are older and more independent. Child rearing takes a group of people not ju…
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/09/opinion/ezra-klein-kriste...?
"We could be raising our children cooperatively in dwellings designed to enhance rather than inhibit social connection. We could be more sustainably sharing our resources and teaching our children to value collaboration over competition. We could be living in wider lateral networks of love, care, and support; fighting the scourges of loneliness, anxiety, precarity and the many stresses associated with modern life. Most of us are not.”
Re: How South Korea’s birth rate dropped below Japan’s
#78I think all these studies skirt very gingerly around a big problem. Stressful work culture, lack of support for families (includes high real-estate costs, long commute times, lack of sick leave, etc.) and most importantly a path for women (and men - but its mostly women) who drop out of the workforce and want to get back in once the children are older and more independent. Child rearing takes a group of people not ju…
>and most importantly a path for women (and men - but its mostly women) who drop out of the workforce and want to get back in once the children are older and more independent. I don't think this is quite right, and your second paragraph is kind of alluding to the underlying issue. I think it's more that there isn't a pathway for women to drop out of the workforce permanently and revert to a single-income household. A…
As a man, I’m looking for an independent woman with a good income, because I don’t want to get gutted in a divorce. I’d love to be a SAHD, but it’s difficult for me to find single women with comparable income.
Re: How South Korea’s birth rate dropped below Japan’s
#79I think all these studies skirt very gingerly around a big problem. Stressful work culture, lack of support for families (includes high real-estate costs, long commute times, lack of sick leave, etc.) and most importantly a path for women (and men - but its mostly women) who drop out of the workforce and want to get back in once the children are older and more independent. Child rearing takes a group of people not ju…
Childcare subsidies.
Re: How South Korea’s birth rate dropped below Japan’s
#80Life may be too good for kids anymore The article has curiously little about what koreans actually want, vs what the author thinks is stopping them (despite their burning desire) to have kids. After all, as the article says the birthrate went way down a long time ago thus it's likely that people would know by now what is stopping them from having more kids
No. I want kids but I don't want them until I can afford stable housing. And if that's hard for me as an overpaid tech worker, then I understand why most people are delaying kids or not having them at all. If most young people are still living with parents or roommates well into their 30's, then it's not a mystery why my generation isn't having kids. Nothing to do with 'life is so good kids aren't desirable anymore'.