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Veilid is an open-source, P2P, mobile-first, networked application framework

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Re: Veilid is an open-source, P2P, mobile-first, networked application framework

#71
post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. The protection they have against attacks are not ad hoc. They are based on theory and are scalable. One protection strategy (often seen in web-of-trust arthitectures) is to put trust in the authenticity of the current present machine (idk how to better phrase it). This way it doesn't even matter how much of your network is comprised of bots. Your machine will reject them all.

Doesn't that just increase the amount of time the bots have to remain as "sleepers" to embed themselves in the network before turning evil?

No, let me describe Web-of-Trust. Think about a P2P communication network. You have a trust level for each peer. You add a few trusted peers as friends beforehand. Now beware, this is a recursive algorithm. Your trust level for your direct friends is %100. It’s %0 by default for non-friends, then you calculate it as: the average trust every friend of yours has in that non-friend. If a friend of yours has added that non-friend as his friend, then you happen to have a level of trust in that non-friend and if that level exceeds a threshold, you deem him trustworthy for your purpose (info exchange etc.).

This is simplified, for example to be able to trust a peer who is not a friend of yours or your friends, you can add the trust of your friends’ friends in the calculation for a non-friend, while dividing the friends’ friends trust by a number to diminish their effect on the result. E.g. multiply your 2-level friends’ trust levels with 0.9, 3-level with 0.8 and so on.

This way, real peers will live in their isolated bubble network. Bots can’t fabricate your trust in themselves even if a direct friend of yours has a botnet he added as friends to his node, because no one else added those bots as friends other than your malicious friend. That botnet all trusting each other will be another isolated bubble of trust, with no trust-access to the real-peers bubble.

You can use this exact architecture to share and distribute encryption keys to create secure channels with trusted peers. Though you’d have to exchange keys with your friends air-gapped for it to be secure, if all the wires are tapped (which is true for the internet).

The failure mode in this architecture is: If all/most your real-life friends are malicious agents, then your node can live in a botnet trust bubble without you knowing it.

Re: Veilid is an open-source, P2P, mobile-first, networked application framework

#73
post #18

I saw this talk at DEFCON. It seems to combine ideas from IPFS, BitTorrent magnet links, Tor, and things like scuttlebutt. There was a very strong focus on privacy including for metadata. The biggest weaknesses I saw were around DOS attack resistance, which I did not see addressed. There were good approaches for privacy and security but what if someone with resources (botnet or money) wants to just burn the network d…

I actually think going the tokenization route is a good idea. As a positive side effect of the cryptocurrency boom, a lot of good research on POW/POS secured distributed systems was done and it would be a waste to not at least consider using this research.

As long as you hide the details in the depths of documentation of the protocol, make up alternative terms to those that have been tainted by cryptobros and don't mention any relation to cryptocurrency-originated technology, you would probably successfully avoid having parallels drawn between your project and cryptocurrencies.

Sure, someone might cobble together an API and put your token on a cryptocurrency exchange against your best wishes, but I think the risk of that is low. It's easy enough to launch your own crypto and if I'm looking to run a pump and dump scheme, why attach myself to a project that openly distances itself from the crypto scene?

Re: Veilid is an open-source, P2P, mobile-first, networked application framework

#74
post #73
post #18

I saw this talk at DEFCON. It seems to combine ideas from IPFS, BitTorrent magnet links, Tor, and things like scuttlebutt. There was a very strong focus on privacy including for metadata. The biggest weaknesses I saw were around DOS attack resistance, which I did not see addressed. There were good approaches for privacy and security but what if someone with resources (botnet or money) wants to just burn the network d…

I actually think going the tokenization route is a good idea. As a positive side effect of the cryptocurrency boom, a lot of good research on POW/POS secured distributed systems was done and it would be a waste to not at least consider using this research. As long as you hide the details in the depths of documentation of the protocol, make up alternative terms to those that have been tainted by cryptobros and don't m…

> but I think the risk of that is low.

Oh, my sweet summer child ;)

If it can be done, it will be done. Non-consenting projects have been hijacked for pump-and-dumps countless of times. Better design the economics of the token with that in mind rather than having them broken once the wrapped token inevitably hits DeFi markets and gets spammed across Discord and Telegram chats.

Re: Veilid is an open-source, P2P, mobile-first, networked application framework

#75
post #33

Why reinvent the wheel? We already have NKN [N]ew [K]ind of [N]etwork. (nkn.org)

Veilid specifically does not want to be a blockchain project.

How do you foresee solving the sybil- and DDoS classes of problems referred to in other comments without eventually requiring it?
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