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Founder of crypto lender Celsius Network arrested, charged with fraud

reuters.com

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Re: Founder of crypto lender Celsius Network arrested, charged with fraud

#71

Post by kayodelycaon »

angry_albatross wrote: post #46
elforce002 wrote: post #37

And now "crypto" bros are moving to AI. The never ending story.

AI is not in the same category in my book. Both may be overhyped in some ways, but blockchain technology was fundamentally a bad idea with no legitimate use cases.

The one legitimate use case of using blockchain for decentralized digital currency ends up being used by everyone who can’t transfer funds using normal routes. So most of the people using it are either bad actors or speculators

Kind of like Tor. Bad actors ruin all kinds of things. People who only see technology will only go on to repeat the mistakes of the past because they lack the necessary domain knowledge to know better.

Re: Founder of crypto lender Celsius Network arrested, charged with fraud

#72

Post by sonicshadow »

wpietri wrote: post #32
jqpabc123 wrote: post #8

Crypto is a fraudster's paradise.

And unfortunately I think the tech industry unintentionally enabled it in a few ways. The internet/mobile boom was a real leap for humanity. (Not an unmixed one, any more than the printing press was. But a real leap nonetheless.) This left a lot investors looking for the Next Big Thing. I think it made regulators very cautious of possibly harming something that could be The Future. Journalists were accustomed to tell…

> Hopefully next time around we can be more discerning, more usefully critical.

Like after the destruction of democracy by social media? Or the implosion of the dot com bubble? How many more times does the tech industry get to just say "Hopefully next time!"

Re: Founder of crypto lender Celsius Network arrested, charged with fraud

#73

Post by sonicshadow »

angry_albatross wrote: post #46
elforce002 wrote: post #37

And now "crypto" bros are moving to AI. The never ending story.

AI is not in the same category in my book. Both may be overhyped in some ways, but blockchain technology was fundamentally a bad idea with no legitimate use cases.

I wrong

Re: Founder of crypto lender Celsius Network arrested, charged with fraud

#75

Post by Workaccount2 »

dcist wrote: post #34
jcranmer wrote: post #14

Journalists really need to link to court documents. Although in this situation, there does seem to be quite a few of them: US v Mashinsky: https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.nysd.60... SEC v Celsius: https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.nysd.60... FTC v Celsius: https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.nysd.60... CFTC v Celsius: https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov…

Thank you! I never understand why journalists don't link to court documents.

They probably do but the editors remove them.

It seems that rule number one of running a news site is to never have any external links. It's like a casino, they want you to come in and get lost.

Re: Founder of crypto lender Celsius Network arrested, charged with fraud

#76

Post by nextworddev »

gloryjulio wrote: post #67
thrownaway89865 wrote: post #50

Would someone explain to me what the endgame of these fraudsters is? I mean, of course they are trying to get rich quick pulling these schemes but you would believe that they do it because they perceive that there is some sort of opportunity to cash out without inevitably going to prison some day, right? What is the thought process in the mind of these criminals when shit hits the fan? Maybe just hire very expensive…

There are tons of small scale influencer scammers are not prosecuted, and some could even pull the scams again. Logan Paul, techlead..u get the idea

Didn’t techlead literally commit all the things Celsius CEO is charged for, with his Million Token?

Re: Founder of crypto lender Celsius Network arrested, charged with fraud

#77

Post by angry_albatross »

sublinear wrote: post #56
angry_albatross wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AI is not in the same category in my book. Both may be overhyped in some ways, but blockchain technology was fundamentally a bad idea with no legitimate use cases.

It can be argued that probabilistic generative AI is about as equally worthless from first principles.

You are claiming that there is some sort of mathematical proof that this AI has no "worth"? There are a lot of people who are finding value from probabilistic generative AI, to the extent that they are willing to pay OpenAI $20/month to get access to the best model available, so I think that counteracts whatever sort of mathematical proof you might make.

It's true that crypto has a lot of users too, but I think the difference is that these users are mostly being deceived into thinking that their involvement in crypto will make them rich in the future, when it will not. AI is giving people immediate value instead of making promises of future wealth.

Re: Founder of crypto lender Celsius Network arrested, charged with fraud

#78

Post by giarc »

dcist wrote: post #34
jcranmer wrote: post #14

Journalists really need to link to court documents. Although in this situation, there does seem to be quite a few of them: US v Mashinsky: https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.nysd.60... SEC v Celsius: https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.nysd.60... FTC v Celsius: https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.nysd.60... CFTC v Celsius: https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov…

Thank you! I never understand why journalists don't link to court documents.

Because 99% of readers probably don't want to/won't read them.

Re: Founder of crypto lender Celsius Network arrested, charged with fraud

#79

Post by legitster »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #4

"Somebody is lying. Either the bank is lying or Celsius is lying.” - Alex Mashinsky EDIT: omg at the almost $5B settlement https://www.cnbc.com/2023/07/13/former-celsius-ceo-arrested-... ("The FTC also announced a $4.7 billion settlement against the exchange, which will not be paid until creditors and investors have been repaid in bankruptcy proceedings.")

The FTC determined that the exchange is guilty of defrauding investors because Celsius defrauded customers.

And the remediation is that investors get their money back.

Kind of weird when you think about it. But it's a good reminder that the goal of the FTC is to protect investors.

Re: Founder of crypto lender Celsius Network arrested, charged with fraud

#80

Post by dmitrygr »

legitster wrote: post #69

Let's say I run a swap meet for people to buy and sell Pokémon cards. There are lots of scammers out there, but I promise people they are going to get good prices. And I even offer to buy cards off of people at good prices to drum up interest. Tomorrow, the SEC decides that Pokémon cards are securities (far-fetched, but work with me here) Suddenly, anyone buying and selling them becomes a criminal. I tell people via…

Your example left out the crimes…

You didn’t promise people that their Pokémon cards ARE money. You didnt promise them that they WILL NECESSARILY go up in value. That’s the difference.

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