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Europe’s Longest Bicycling Tunnel Opens in Norway

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Re: Europe’s Longest Bicycling Tunnel Opens in Norway

#71

Post by DeathArrow »

MagnumOpus wrote: post #44
aziaziazi wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why only 100d/y while Norwegian works around 190d/y? In my experience people tends to have a “main” commute mode that they only turn away from in exceptional cases. Easier to live with habits that mixing your timetables every other day.

People might use cars or public transport instead of a bike to commute if there is heavy rain or snow. This is an important consideration in Bergen which is notoriously the rainiest city in Europe (it rains more than half the time).

So there are places in Europe where it rains more than in UK?

Re: Europe’s Longest Bicycling Tunnel Opens in Norway

#72

Post by ClumsyPilot »

jwr wrote: post #57

I'm jealous. If my country built a tunnel like that, it would be for cars only (preferably old polluting diesel, with fuel subsidies), so that "normal people" can use it. With an added whiff of coal power plant smoke. Oh well. Growing civilized takes time.

There is crazy entitlement of cars to the detriment of everything else. It's like privilidge/something-ism.

In Uk there is a particular crossing where cars were frqeuently hitting pedestris on the pavement, and traffic authority decided againt putting up bollards becauae cars might get damaged.

So its more important to keep a car undamaged than to keep people/children safe.

We've had people cut up bollards with an angle grinder. Bollards in the shape of a large planter was soaked in petrol and burned to the ground

Nobody cares, noone is charged and this does not even make the news.

Re: Europe’s Longest Bicycling Tunnel Opens in Norway

#73

Post by wiredfool »

INTPenis wrote: post #55
wiredfool wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eh, not exactly. Pedestrians are heavier than cars in terms of pounds per square foot. Bridges are designed for extreme loads, including pessimistic pattern loading, and the requirements for pedestrian bridges aren’t any less safety critical. (edit: I designed this bridge: https://www.google.com/maps/@47.597616,-122.3297804,3a,75y,7... )

Ok I'm clearly talking to an expert here but isn't there a factor of vibration from vehicle traffic to take into account? And sure humans if packed into a bridge might be heavier than cars per square foot, but they're usually not packed like sardines on a bridge.

Somewhat. There are a bunch of 'failure' modes that you want to avoid (either actual failure or service level issues), and some bridges are going to be closer to one mode than another.

It's a little like memory pressure vs cpu vs disk vs network. There are some services that aren't going to ever hit one of them because the others are limiting first. Memcached is never going saturate disk.

If you've got a bridge that's 'stiff' or 'heavy' (like truss/beam/whatever) resonances are unlikely to be an issue. If you've got anything light and flexible or with cables, you need to be thinking _hard_ about resonance, in all the modes, torsional being one that's bitten designers bad in the past.

Re: Europe’s Longest Bicycling Tunnel Opens in Norway

#75

Post by cubefox »

pastacacioepepe wrote: post #52
trabant00 wrote: post #22

Why can't we support and encourage cycling without vilifying cars in these threads? I've seen plenty of places that do both very well, like Spain. Everybody has a car and bicycle (at least one) and uses whatever fits the purpose at the time. I get it, when there's not cycling infrastructure everybody is forced to take the car even if it doesn't make any sense, like for short trips, good weather, single passenger, no…

> Why can't we support and encourage cycling without vilifying cars in these threads? Because cars pollute the air I breath, car horns constantly stress me, because politicians and city planners will use cars as a justification to develop cities as asphalt wastelands, because pedestrians and bikers are killed daily by unruly car drivers and so on. Plus somehow cars manage to bring out the worst in every person. Road…

One absurd but conventionally normal thing is that cities have to build wider streets just because car drivers will inevitably transform them into parking lots, on both sides, halving their width. Old streets often seem narrow, but they aren't really narrow when they aren't full of parked cars.

Re: Europe’s Longest Bicycling Tunnel Opens in Norway

#76

Post by lb1lf »

Technotroll wrote: post #53
biomene wrote: post #2

It's the escape tunnel for a tram tunnel with an extra coat of paint: https://www.lifeinnorway.net/bergen-cycle-tunnel/

The tram line in Bergen was discontinued in 1965. Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bergen_Tramway

-This would be an escape tunnel for the Bybanen, a light railway more comparable to the S-Bahn than a tram as such.

Re: Europe’s Longest Bicycling Tunnel Opens in Norway

#78

Post by DonHopkins »

medstrom wrote: post #65
gns24 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, the potential loading is annoying. I remember wondering why predestrian/cycle bridges were always so annoyingly narrow despite having low loads. The issue is of course that they have to be strong enough to support being crammed with hundreds of people when everyone is there to watch the local fireworks/rowing race/anything else that's happening, even if that happens almost never.

If you built a rope-bridge, I'm sure people would beware of cramming it. Maybe it's possible to build designs that discourage. Where are you from? I haven't seen an "annoyingly narrow" ped/cycle bridge in Sweden or Belgium.

>If you built a rope-bridge, I'm sure people would beware of cramming it.

You're not American or British, ehe? ;)

Re: Europe’s Longest Bicycling Tunnel Opens in Norway

#79

Post by timeon »

hutzlibu wrote: post #32
CrampusDestrus wrote: post #8

The best thing about pedestrian/cycling bridges and tunnels is that they cost soooo much less money to build since they have so much laxer requirements. The reason why we still have roman bridges standing is because the stress contribution of a human walking on it is basically zero. But start bringing in cars and trucks and see it crumble in a week

"because the stress contribution of a human walking on it is basically zero." If that would be the case, armys would still march on bridges. But they don't. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broughton_Suspension_Bridge

So instead of marching they need to be walking.

Re: Europe’s Longest Bicycling Tunnel Opens in Norway

#80

Post by eythian »

wouldbecouldbe wrote: post #26

In Amsterdam a bridge over the water connecting Central Amsterdam with the North is always a hot topic, for decades of talking about it sill hasn't materialized. A few serious alternatives that were proposed where tunnels for bikes. But they consistently decide not to do it because of safety concerns at night. Which is hopefully a bigger issue in Amsterdam than Bergen.

I saw something in the news today that the gemeente has earmarked €100m for the bridge, 1/3rd of the total (another 100m coming from another source, and the remaining to be raised.) Bike tunnels under the IJ apparently (so I recall reading, anyway) also have the issue that to have not too steep slopes at the end, the entry/exit points will have to be a reasonable distance from the water itself.

https://nltimes.nl/2023/04/28/amsterdam-pushing-eu100-millio...

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