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Europe’s Longest Bicycling Tunnel Opens in Norway

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Re: Europe’s Longest Bicycling Tunnel Opens in Norway

#41

Post by rsynnott »

rhn_mk1 wrote: post #19
InCityDreams wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's assume the saving of one life....

Okay. Taking the 20min saved per ride from the article, and 300 rides that would otherwise take the longer route per day out of my ass, we get 100 hours saved per day. That's approximately 4 days saved per day. From https://www.fhi.no/en/op/hin/population/life-expectancy/ , life expectancy in Norway is about 82 years. Together, that means the tunnel will save one human life in about 20 years, not taking into account…

300 users a day sounds improbably low for an urban route.

Re: Europe’s Longest Bicycling Tunnel Opens in Norway

#42

Post by vasco »

wouldbecouldbe wrote: post #26

In Amsterdam a bridge over the water connecting Central Amsterdam with the North is always a hot topic, for decades of talking about it sill hasn't materialized. A few serious alternatives that were proposed where tunnels for bikes. But they consistently decide not to do it because of safety concerns at night. Which is hopefully a bigger issue in Amsterdam than Bergen.

I wonder how the cost of one policeman posted there every night for 50 years compares to continuing to run 24/7 ferries. Specially dilluted on top of the cost of building the tunnel itself.

Re: Europe’s Longest Bicycling Tunnel Opens in Norway

#43

Post by rsynnott »

trabant00 wrote: post #22

Why can't we support and encourage cycling without vilifying cars in these threads? I've seen plenty of places that do both very well, like Spain. Everybody has a car and bicycle (at least one) and uses whatever fits the purpose at the time. I get it, when there's not cycling infrastructure everybody is forced to take the car even if it doesn't make any sense, like for short trips, good weather, single passenger, no…

> But there's plenty of occasions when you really need a car.

Eh, depends on your needs, really. I've gotten along without one for decades; I keep meaning to learn to drive, but it never rises to the top of the priority list as I just don't really have a use for it.

Re: Europe’s Longest Bicycling Tunnel Opens in Norway

#44

Post by MagnumOpus »

aziaziazi wrote: post #20
sweettea wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed, if we assume cyclists use the tunnel 100 days a year going both ways through it, thats saving each one nearly 60+ hours a year. If each one's time is worth $20, that is over a thousand dollars per cyclist per year - it only takes 9k cyclists to make the savings outweigh the costs in five years.

Why only 100d/y while Norwegian works around 190d/y? In my experience people tends to have a “main” commute mode that they only turn away from in exceptional cases. Easier to live with habits that mixing your timetables every other day.

People might use cars or public transport instead of a bike to commute if there is heavy rain or snow. This is an important consideration in Bergen which is notoriously the rainiest city in Europe (it rains more than half the time).

Re: Europe’s Longest Bicycling Tunnel Opens in Norway

#45

Post by patall »

k4rli wrote: post #16
sweettea wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed, if we assume cyclists use the tunnel 100 days a year going both ways through it, thats saving each one nearly 60+ hours a year. If each one's time is worth $20, that is over a thousand dollars per cyclist per year - it only takes 9k cyclists to make the savings outweigh the costs in five years.

[flagged]

The calculation given is probably not right, but every european (and ideally world-wide) infrastructure project will have a cost to benefit analysis. Even if just to decide on which project to build next.

Re: Europe’s Longest Bicycling Tunnel Opens in Norway

#46

Post by LudwigNagasena »

k4rli wrote: post #16
sweettea wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed, if we assume cyclists use the tunnel 100 days a year going both ways through it, thats saving each one nearly 60+ hours a year. If each one's time is worth $20, that is over a thousand dollars per cyclist per year - it only takes 9k cyclists to make the savings outweigh the costs in five years.

[flagged]

It sounds very nice and morally fulfilling to denigrate any numerical calculus of welfare; but in the end you still have to deal with monetary budgets that represent limited societal supply of labor and resources.

You may try to take a moral high ground and say that people are more important than $X million, but those money also represent potential housing, cancer treatment research, green energy investment, etc that won’t be financed. You cannot get away from measuring value of time and toil of people, at least implicitly. Why not then make it explicit and be mindful of it?

Re: Europe’s Longest Bicycling Tunnel Opens in Norway

#47

Post by Tade0 »

vasco wrote: post #42
wouldbecouldbe wrote: post #26

In Amsterdam a bridge over the water connecting Central Amsterdam with the North is always a hot topic, for decades of talking about it sill hasn't materialized. A few serious alternatives that were proposed where tunnels for bikes. But they consistently decide not to do it because of safety concerns at night. Which is hopefully a bigger issue in Amsterdam than Bergen.

I wonder how the cost of one policeman posted there every night for 50 years compares to continuing to run 24/7 ferries. Specially dilluted on top of the cost of building the tunnel itself.

In suppose it's not a question of money, but the lack people willing to take such a position. It's not a glamorous job and most have better things to do with their time.

Re: Europe’s Longest Bicycling Tunnel Opens in Norway

#48

Post by CrampusDestrus »

adav wrote: post #39
CrampusDestrus wrote: post #8

The best thing about pedestrian/cycling bridges and tunnels is that they cost soooo much less money to build since they have so much laxer requirements. The reason why we still have roman bridges standing is because the stress contribution of a human walking on it is basically zero. But start bringing in cars and trucks and see it crumble in a week

Tell that to the engineers of the Millennium Bridge in London. Resonance from foot traffic caused it to start swaying, requiring shoring up with massive dampers.

No matter the traffic, a bridge should always be built to avoid resonance. Unstable dynamical systems do not care if it's a truck or a feather, they'll resonate and collapse.

Re: Europe’s Longest Bicycling Tunnel Opens in Norway

#49

Post by thecyber »

CrampusDestrus wrote: post #8

The best thing about pedestrian/cycling bridges and tunnels is that they cost soooo much less money to build since they have so much laxer requirements. The reason why we still have roman bridges standing is because the stress contribution of a human walking on it is basically zero. But start bringing in cars and trucks and see it crumble in a week

[dead]

Re: Europe’s Longest Bicycling Tunnel Opens in Norway

#50

Post by usrusr »

rob74 wrote: post #40
biomene wrote: post #2

It's the escape tunnel for a tram tunnel with an extra coat of paint: https://www.lifeinnorway.net/bergen-cycle-tunnel/

Strange, I have never heard of a separate escape tunnel for a tram tunnel. Even German U-Bahn/S-Bahn (which I am most familiar with) tunnels usually just have a walkway beside the tracks that leads to the next station or emergency exit. But I guess that also depends on length between possible stations/exits, or it's due to newer regulations, or maybe it was a "mixed calculation" ("if we build a separate tunnel, it's…

Subway tunnels usually aren't that far from the surface, even those that dive/rise between stops. So they just dot in a few emergency stairs to the surface if stops are too far apart. This tram tunnel however apparently is a shortcut through some mountain (because otherwise, the bike sibling wouldn't make much difference), so the emergency exit problem isn't easily solved by digging vertically.
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