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European DSA Recipients of Services Report

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Re: European DSA Recipients of Services Report

#71

Post by selykg »

threeseed wrote: post #65
fsckboy wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> iOS/iPadOS does allow you to have one code base that dynamically responds to screen sizes. But almost always the experience for iPad users is terrible. are you saying the tools aren't there for developers to create equally pleasing (mutatis mutandis) apps, or simply that the developers aren't able to create equally pleasing (mutatis mutandis) apps? Or that designers can't grok the mapping between their equally plea…

There is no tool that can scale a mobile app to tablet size whilst maintaining a great UX. You need to optimise for the particulars of each device.

Having worked on an app that, at least in my opinion, was pretty well done for each platform (phone and iPad), this is the case.

Our UI for the iPad was a completely separate one. The core code was shared via various internal libraries, but the UI was entirely different. Adding a feature to iPhone required one entirely separate set of code compared to the iPad app. The app was a universal binary though and one app ran on both device types.

This was, at the time, an absolute requirement. There was no way to scale the app from iPad to iPhone in such a way that it would give a great experience on both iPhone and iPad. It just wasn't possible to give an excellent app.

I've long since left and the app does seem to be written in SwiftUI now and seems to be one shared codebase. But I wouldn't say it's as good as it was previously.

Re: European DSA Recipients of Services Report

#73

Post by Jtsummers »

rpgbr wrote: post #66

Less than 1% of European iPhone users have an Apple Watch, or am I misreading something? I really thought this percentage was bigger in such a rich place.

This is monthly ??? Store users. Having an Apple Watch does not imply they use the Apple Watch App Store every month, or even any month. Even having an iPhone does not mean they'll use the iPhone App Store each month (though it's probably more likely).

Re: European DSA Recipients of Services Report

#74

Post by glompers »

scarface74 wrote: post #59
zamnos wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The iPad store didn't break away from the iOS store until 2019. The original app store came out in 2008, eleven years earlier. While you have as certain point, the division is meant to highlight apps which treat the iPad as a mini laptop, with a keyboard and pencil, vs just a bigger phone. If you've ever coded a website to resize, that's child's play. to actually get an app working properly across both sizes, you've…

This is not true. From the day that the iPad was introduced, you have always been able to sell separate iPad versions of an app then iPhone versions.

You can still do it without doing it well. That's probably not at issue so I think the parent is not false

Re: European DSA Recipients of Services Report

#75

Post by karmelapple »

makestuff wrote: post #46
_the_inflator wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. Almost anyone of these one size fits all approaches hits a wall sooner or later. Besides very basic applications, I would never make use of frameworks like Flutter or React Native. Same goes for Windows Universal Apps. Great concepts, but not very feasible in reality for slightly complex apps with good UX.

Do you think it is worth the increased time to start out as a native app, or is it still worth rolling your MVP as flutter/reactive native?

IMO, roll your MVP with something like React Native, although it all depends how important the user experience is for your end users.

Snapchat built with some platform-independent UI toolkit would have felt kind of wrong, and the speed at which I've seen teenagers use it (this was years ago) shows that they would have been frustrated with anything that is slow-ish. I assume similar trends dominate for TikTok and Instagram today.

So unless you're attracting a very hip, fast-moving, perhaps even young-person's market, you probably just want an app that basically works and is available to folks on whichever phone they use. React Native, Flutter, Xamarin / .NET MAUI will all get you there.

Re: European DSA Recipients of Services Report

#76

Post by flipbrad »

cube2222 wrote: post #53
jsnell wrote: post #10

> iOS App Store: 101 million > iPadOS App Store: 23 million Asserting that the iPad App Store is distinct from the iOS App Store - and totally isn't in scope for the regulations - is certainly a bold strategy. I wonder why iTunes and Apple TV+ aren't included, and why Podcasts is only counting paid subscribers. Is there some obvious reason why these kinds of services would be out of scope?

It's worth noting that they assert still wanting to comply on the other platforms: > Nonetheless, Apple intends, on an entirely voluntary basis, to align each of the existing versions of the App Store (including those that do not currently meet the VLOP designation threshold) with the existing DSA requirements for VLOPs because the goals of the DSA align with Apple’s goals to protect consumers from illegal content.

Yes, but the regulatory fee you pay annually is calculated by reference to the in-scope service(s)' userbase, so by slicing you reduce what you pay, and your rivals end up footing more of the cost (since it's a cost-share system). Well played, Apple.

Re: European DSA Recipients of Services Report

#77

Post by babypuncher »

fsckboy wrote: post #50
babypuncher wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Software that dynamically changes to fit different form factors is difficult to write and rarely comes without compromises to the UX. I prefer it when my iPhone and iPad apps have separate bespoke UIs that take full advantage of the different sizes and shapes.

writing software is about writing the hard-to-write parts one time, so that users aren't confronted with the anomalies all the time. Computers are our servants, we need to let them figure things out for users, and take care of the headaches, not simply declare "here, this is a headache". yes, what you are pointing out is the challenge. solve it, don't slough it onto the user. However, the same app can appear on diffe…

I'm not saying we should slough it on to the user. I'm saying there is no true substitute for hand tailoring your app for each platform you choose to support.

Re: European DSA Recipients of Services Report

#78

Post by nextos »

rnk wrote: post #48
_the_inflator wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. Almost anyone of these one size fits all approaches hits a wall sooner or later. Besides very basic applications, I would never make use of frameworks like Flutter or React Native. Same goes for Windows Universal Apps. Great concepts, but not very feasible in reality for slightly complex apps with good UX.

I strongly disagree. This is just big companies artificially separating their market segments to argue against too large of a market, and preserve their enormous profits with their huge percentage take. The world would be much better off with multiple stores. It will take legal action by the eu, and it will be hard, these rich companies are very influential. In the us we have too much capture of federal politicans, I…

I hope multiple stores shake a bit the iPad ecosystem. It's a great device and, unlike in mobile, there's no competition.

Android tablets are pretty bad. Google dropped the ball, although they seem to be coming back.

iPads could be fantastic devices to program in, but they are quite crippled by limitations.

Boutique software companies, such as Panic or Omni Group, plus other developers could really extend the ecosystem beyond content consumption and simple document creation tasks.

Re: European DSA Recipients of Services Report

#79

Post by karmelapple »

radicaldreamer wrote: post #9
DRW_ wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I'm surprised there are more Apple TV users than Apple watch users. I don't think these stats suggest that there are more Apple TV users than Apple watch users. They say more people use the App Store on tvOS than use the App Store on Apple Watch. As an Apple Watch user, I'm not surprised by that all. Why would I want to browse the app store directly on my watch? That's annoying and cumbersome. I do it on my phone, i…

Spot on, nobody uses the App Store on the Apple Watch, most people either never use third-party apps on the watch or only use companion apps which are installed alongside iOS apps

I had zero idea there was an App Store on the Apple Watch until this thread. There's some neat apps listed on there - glad everyone in this thread talked about this!

Re: European DSA Recipients of Services Report

#80

Post by owisd »

rootusrootus wrote: post #58
smoldesu wrote: post #14

> because the goals of the DSA align with Apple’s goals to protect consumers from illegal content. An interesting gambit. It sounds like they want to concede to the regulators while using "illegal content" as the new boogeyman stopping people from freely using their device. The freedom-loving part of me wants the EU to push the DSA/DMA further, damning all the "content" boogeymen that exist. The realistic part of me…

> The freedom-loving part of me wants the EU to push I'd expect that writing this phrase caused actual physical pain from the cognitive dissonance.

It's a balancing act between the negative freedom to be allowed to manufacture and sell a locked down device VS the positive freedom to install whatever software you want on the devices that you buy. I know libertarians skew very much towards the negative end, but they don't get to gatekeep the word freedom.
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