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Germany Quits Nuclear Power, Ending a Decades-Long Struggle

nytimes.com

71–80 of 126 posts

Re: Germany Quits Nuclear Power, Ending a Decades-Long Struggle

#71
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Nuclear power is cleaner [..] than fossil fuels in every way." Actually not every way though.. nuclear waste has to go somewhere.

Fossil fuel waste goes straight into the atmosphere is and is killing millions of people through climate change and respiratory diseases. And not forgetting slag piles and other fossil fuel waste (e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aberfan_disaster ). Nuclear waste has killed possibly a few hundred people at best.

You should also take in consideration, that nuclear waste is dangerous over a very long period of time. So a couple hundred now might turn into millions until the waste is no longer dangerous.

Re: Germany Quits Nuclear Power, Ending a Decades-Long Struggle

#72
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This was not decided by the greens only. From the article: > Yet the Fukushima nuclear disaster in Japan in 2011 caused German sentiments to shift strongly against atomic energy once more, and Ms. Merkel abruptly reversed course. Her government passed a law to phase out Germany’s 17 nuclear reactors by the end of 2022. Similarly in the neighbouring Austria, nuclear power is prohibited in the constitution, not by a po…

> in the neighbouring Austria, nuclear power is prohibited Which is funny, because we actually built a pretty much complete nuclear power plant, Zwentendorf. It‘s now a unique museum. A vote of just 50.47 % ruined our radiant future... Also we do have one research reactor left right in the city. I was blessed enough to visit it once.

> A vote of just 50.47 % ruined our radiant future...

There really should be a rule that important decisions can't pass with a tiny majority

Re: Germany Quits Nuclear Power, Ending a Decades-Long Struggle

#73
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Actually not every way though.. nuclear waste has to go somewhere. I don't understand your argument; of course waste must go somewhere. Nuclear power, with its waste, is still cleaner than fossil fuels in every way.

I'm not saying nuclear is worse than fossil fuels, just that we don't know the future impact of waste with such a long half-life. So I don't think it's demonstrably cleaner "in every way".

>I'm not saying nuclear is worse than fossil fuels, just that we don't know the future impact of waste with such a long half-life.

No, we've got a pretty good idea.

>So I don't think it's demonstrably cleaner "in every way".

It is, objectively.

Re: Germany Quits Nuclear Power, Ending a Decades-Long Struggle

#74
post #4
post #2

Germany be like - let's do exactly opposite of what makes sense in today's world Green party is really ruining and I'm amazed people still give them votes

To be fair: Merkel (so conservatives and liberals) made the decision in 2011 after Fukushima in a move to align with popular sentiment.

> after Fukushima in a move to align with popular sentiment.

So they were populists?

Re: Germany Quits Nuclear Power, Ending a Decades-Long Struggle

#75
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately popular sentiment doesn't equate to scientific fact. Nuclear power is cleaner, safer and less environmentally damaging than fossil fuels in every way. Still, since when have politicians ever let facts get in the way of campaigning for power?

"Nuclear power is cleaner [..] than fossil fuels in every way." Actually not every way though.. nuclear waste has to go somewhere.

> nuclear waste has to go somewhere.

yes, and it's so dense that it fits in a ridiculous amount of space, unlike coal that will put cancer-causing dusts everywhere in the air for decades to come. Enjoy.

Re: Germany Quits Nuclear Power, Ending a Decades-Long Struggle

#76
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fossil fuel waste goes straight into the atmosphere is and is killing millions of people through climate change and respiratory diseases. And not forgetting slag piles and other fossil fuel waste (e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aberfan_disaster ). Nuclear waste has killed possibly a few hundred people at best.

You should also take in consideration, that nuclear waste is dangerous over a very long period of time. So a couple hundred now might turn into millions until the waste is no longer dangerous.

> So a couple hundred now might turn into millions until the waste is no longer dangerous.

Not if we store it properly, like we already do.

Re: Germany Quits Nuclear Power, Ending a Decades-Long Struggle

#77
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fossil fuel waste goes straight into the atmosphere is and is killing millions of people through climate change and respiratory diseases. And not forgetting slag piles and other fossil fuel waste (e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aberfan_disaster ). Nuclear waste has killed possibly a few hundred people at best.

You should also take in consideration, that nuclear waste is dangerous over a very long period of time. So a couple hundred now might turn into millions until the waste is no longer dangerous.

>You should also take in consideration, that nuclear waste is dangerous over a very long period of time. So a couple hundred now might turn into millions until the waste is no longer dangerous.

Take into consideration the burning of fossil fuels over a very long period of time. Billions.

Re: Germany Quits Nuclear Power, Ending a Decades-Long Struggle

#78
When this was announced over 10 years ago, the overwhelming majority of people concluded it's a shame they will be replaced with coal. Fast forward ten years and the use of coal is at a record low, the use of gas has not really changed in a meaningful way and overall the situation has improved significantly on its own, but especially compared to some other developed countries. E.g. the US is still at 60% fossil fuels and not going down faster than Germany. This should be a bigger problem, but it's not really talked about, and neither is the per capita consumption a.k.a. efficiency which is in the US abysmal.

People should focus more on outcomes of policies and not their favorite tech. If they'd do that it would be easy to see that nuclear has existed for 70 years and it has failed to replace fossil fuels worldwide in a meaningful way. To me it's obvious the costs are prohibitive and this is unlikely to change. It hasn't thus far. If someone can get it done, by all means, but it hasn't happened. Instead we hear about small modular which was already tried in the 80s because of the high upfront investments of large plants, but those turned out not to work because of even higher per MWh costs. So it was back to huge plants which again turned out to be difficult to build. I am seeing a pattern here.

Renewables are accomplishing a lot more and a lot faster and there's no need to waste resources on something else. If they can't get us to 100% they can get us as fast as possible to whatever is possible. And thus far all the predictions on what is realistic for renewables as a percentage of the grid have failed dramatically.

Re: Germany Quits Nuclear Power, Ending a Decades-Long Struggle

#79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whats even more stupider, burning coal emits more radioactivity into the atmosphere than all nuclear accidents ever have...

You'll have to properly frame your statement for it to make sense. Are you talking about one plant over its lifetime? How long is the lifetime? What kind of coal is burned in that plant? How big is the plant? Also we don't know about all the nuclear accidents, do you mean all known civilian nuclear power plant accidents?

Coal contains between 1 to 10 ppm of uranium. Globally about 8 billion tonnes of coal is burned every year to generate electricity. Thus between 8 thousand and 80 thousand tonnes of Uranium is emitted into the atmosphere every year.

Re: Germany Quits Nuclear Power, Ending a Decades-Long Struggle

#80
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fossil fuel waste goes straight into the atmosphere is and is killing millions of people through climate change and respiratory diseases. And not forgetting slag piles and other fossil fuel waste (e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aberfan_disaster ). Nuclear waste has killed possibly a few hundred people at best.

You should also take in consideration, that nuclear waste is dangerous over a very long period of time. So a couple hundred now might turn into millions until the waste is no longer dangerous.

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