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Germany Quits Nuclear Power, Ending a Decades-Long Struggle

nytimes.com

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Re: Germany Quits Nuclear Power, Ending a Decades-Long Struggle

#31

Post by awaythrow98765 »

leipert wrote: post #10
mvdwoord wrote: post #3

Switching back to coal, great move.

Yeah, what’s even more hilarious: Conservatives made the decision to shut down the nuclear plants and also destroyed the German renewable sector at the same time. But voters have a short term memory and will blame it all on the current administration.

2 of the 3 currently governing parties made up the coalition that first decided to end nuclear back in 2001. The later conservative Merkel government just first extended reactor life-times just to go back on its word and shorten them again when Fukushima happened.

But all the big parties and their politicians had a hand in the current desaster, people are quit right to blame all the last 25 years' governments.

Re: Germany Quits Nuclear Power, Ending a Decades-Long Struggle

#32

Post by kken »

leipert wrote: post #10
mvdwoord wrote: post #3

Switching back to coal, great move.

Yeah, what’s even more hilarious: Conservatives made the decision to shut down the nuclear plants and also destroyed the German renewable sector at the same time. But voters have a short term memory and will blame it all on the current administration.

The entire concept of the "Energiewende" was implemented without putting the right constraints in place. The conservatives later fumbled it instead of adding the right changes.

What happened is that the subsidies for renewable energy in Germany mostly led to a buildup of a huge photovoltaic industry in China after an initial goldrush in Europe. When they changed the incentive scheme, the German photovoltaic industry crumbled and the chinese one was kept afloat with local subsidies.

For a while, the equipment suppliers in Europe still profited from the boom in China, but where eventually replaced by Chinese ones. In effect, now both the photovoltaic industry and the equipment industry in Europe largely disappeared.

And to add insult to injury, China is considering to limit photovoltaic exports (potentially as a means to counter the semiconductor sacntions):

https://www.scmp.com/business/article/3208206/chinas-propose...

Re: Germany Quits Nuclear Power, Ending a Decades-Long Struggle

#33

Post by Retric »

HyperSane wrote: post #14

https://www.forbes.com/sites/robertbryce/2022/10/28/the-iron... German Chancellor Olaf Scholz announced that Germany was reopening five power plants that burn lignite, a low-rank coal. Germany’s return to lignite demonstrates, yet again, the Iron Law of Electricity, which says that people, businesses, and governments will do whatever they have to do to get the electricity they need. Indeed, Germany’s move back to lig…

The cost of “going green” is the delta between the cost of green power and the cost of providing electricity without going green. That’s nowhere close to 500B by 2025.

Re: Germany Quits Nuclear Power, Ending a Decades-Long Struggle

#34

Post by Timon3 »

HyperSane wrote: post #21
nixass wrote: post #2

Germany be like - let's do exactly opposite of what makes sense in today's world Green party is really ruining and I'm amazed people still give them votes

Surprised you are getting downvoted, you are correct. This is an incredibly stupid thing to do.

They are probably being downvoted because they are pinning the decisions lead by CDU on the Green party. If they didn't misrepresent the situation they most likely would not get downvoted. Funny how that works, no?

Re: Germany Quits Nuclear Power, Ending a Decades-Long Struggle

#35

Post by HyperSane »

Retric wrote: post #33
HyperSane wrote: post #14

https://www.forbes.com/sites/robertbryce/2022/10/28/the-iron... German Chancellor Olaf Scholz announced that Germany was reopening five power plants that burn lignite, a low-rank coal. Germany’s return to lignite demonstrates, yet again, the Iron Law of Electricity, which says that people, businesses, and governments will do whatever they have to do to get the electricity they need. Indeed, Germany’s move back to lig…

The cost of “going green” is the delta between the cost of green power and the cost of providing electricity without going green. That’s nowhere close to 500B by 2025.

Germany has some of the most expensive electricity in the world.

Re: Germany Quits Nuclear Power, Ending a Decades-Long Struggle

#36

Post by DrBazza »

benfortuna wrote: post #20
DrBazza wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately popular sentiment doesn't equate to scientific fact. Nuclear power is cleaner, safer and less environmentally damaging than fossil fuels in every way. Still, since when have politicians ever let facts get in the way of campaigning for power?

"Nuclear power is cleaner [..] than fossil fuels in every way." Actually not every way though.. nuclear waste has to go somewhere.

Fossil fuel waste goes straight into the atmosphere is and is killing millions of people through climate change and respiratory diseases. And not forgetting slag piles and other fossil fuel waste (e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aberfan_disaster).

Nuclear waste has killed possibly a few hundred people at best.

Re: Germany Quits Nuclear Power, Ending a Decades-Long Struggle

#37

Post by johnchristopher »

leipert wrote: post #10
mvdwoord wrote: post #3

Switching back to coal, great move.

Yeah, what’s even more hilarious: Conservatives made the decision to shut down the nuclear plants and also destroyed the German renewable sector at the same time. But voters have a short term memory and will blame it all on the current administration.

> But voters have a short term memory and will blame it all on the current administration.

Which for some countries means blaming the greens in the current government even though they were absent from previous governments from the last 15 years.

Re: Germany Quits Nuclear Power, Ending a Decades-Long Struggle

#38

Post by mrweasel »

nixass wrote: post #2

Germany be like - let's do exactly opposite of what makes sense in today's world Green party is really ruining and I'm amazed people still give them votes

Danish TV just had a documentary, regarding nuclear power. It's basically the "reporter" who is reconsidering his life long hostility towards nuclear power. In the documentary there's an interesting point: The opponents never wanted coal either, they firmly believe that a no to nuclear was a yes to solar and wind. That part of the message just got lost, and it was not particularly realistic either.

It's incredibly naive, but it's the same mentality in present day nuclear opponents. They still fail to see that a no to nuclear is often a yes to coal, oil and gas.

Re: Germany Quits Nuclear Power, Ending a Decades-Long Struggle

#39

Post by HyperSane »

Timon3 wrote: post #34
HyperSane wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Surprised you are getting downvoted, you are correct. This is an incredibly stupid thing to do.

They are probably being downvoted because they are pinning the decisions lead by CDU on the Green party. If they didn't misrepresent the situation they most likely would not get downvoted. Funny how that works, no?

The CDU may have made the decision but the Greens were in favor of it, were they not?

Re: Germany Quits Nuclear Power, Ending a Decades-Long Struggle

#40

Post by fabian2k »

wheelerof4te wrote: post #5

What are they gonna use for power?

In 2022 (https://www.destatis.de/DE/Presse/Pressemitteilungen/2023/03...):

- 33% coal - 11% natural gas - 24% wind - 11% solar - 6% nuclear

Nuclear was already winding down with only 6% in 2022. Medium term renewables are growing and will replace it, short term coal and gas.

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