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Steve Jobs personally asked Eric Schmidt to stop poaching employees

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Re: Steve Jobs personally asked Eric Schmidt to stop poaching employees

#71

Post by [deleted] »

nyellin wrote: post #32
michaelochurch wrote: post #29

I am surprised that people are surprised by this. Who do VCs spend their skiing trips with: ramen-fed, sleep-deprived startup founders, or other VCs? Of course, they hang out with each other. Same with executives at large companies. They might be nominally "competitors", but they've already learned that they have more in common with one another than with employees in the companies they run.

We are surprised by the blatant disregard for employee rights and that they would do something so illegal.

[deleted]

Re: Steve Jobs personally asked Eric Schmidt to stop poaching employees

#72

Post by badclient »

michaelochurch wrote: post #37
nyellin wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We are surprised by the blatant disregard for employee rights and that they would do something so illegal.

I guess I'm cynical, but I'm not surprised. I wouldn't have expected some specific individuals (I thought more of Eric Schmidt; I always liked him) to be involved but the behavior is not shocking. Yes, it's shitty and illegal. No, it's not at all surprising. Let's say that you're talking to an investor and you tell him that you're being courted by another VC and that he needs to act fast. What's the first thing he'll…

Actually I am shit surprised. Is there any chance of this becoming criminal?

Re: Steve Jobs personally asked Eric Schmidt to stop poaching employees

#73

Post by msg »

neves wrote: post #15

The problem is not just that the employees have less options where to find a job. The real problem is that the employees don't know about the agreement! If I work at Pixar and prospect Intel for a job, they will tell my boss and my carreer at Pixar will be messed for ever. I had a boss that liked to fire employees who he knew were searching for jobs elsewhere. He would announce in job sites good offers asking for can…

So who stayed to work for that boss?

Re: Steve Jobs personally asked Eric Schmidt to stop poaching employees

#74

Post by badclient »

OoTheNigerian wrote: post #62

Here is a different perspective. As an entreppreneur, I would not want my employees poached. I do not miind them seeking out other opportunities, but I would want them to make the move, not an external entity. Poaching can create artificial demand. A satisfied employee an become unsatisfied overnight if he is offered a higher salary elsewhere which you don't/can't match. If I had the way to stop poaching, I will. If…

It is okay to want to do illegal or unethical things. That is pretty human.

It is another thing to actually do them.

Re: Steve Jobs personally asked Eric Schmidt to stop poaching employees

#75

Post by jamesaguilar »

badclient wrote: post #72
michaelochurch wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess I'm cynical, but I'm not surprised. I wouldn't have expected some specific individuals (I thought more of Eric Schmidt; I always liked him) to be involved but the behavior is not shocking. Yes, it's shitty and illegal. No, it's not at all surprising. Let's say that you're talking to an investor and you tell him that you're being courted by another VC and that he needs to act fast. What's the first thing he'll…

Actually I am shit surprised. Is there any chance of this becoming criminal?

It already is, hence the lawsuits.

Re: Steve Jobs personally asked Eric Schmidt to stop poaching employees

#76

Post by notatoad »

OoTheNigerian wrote: post #62

Here is a different perspective. As an entreppreneur, I would not want my employees poached. I do not miind them seeking out other opportunities, but I would want them to make the move, not an external entity. Poaching can create artificial demand. A satisfied employee an become unsatisfied overnight if he is offered a higher salary elsewhere which you don't/can't match. If I had the way to stop poaching, I will. If…

In what way does poaching create artificial demand? If your employee is valuable enough that another company wants to recruit them, that's not artificial demand, it's real demand. If you won't or can't match a salary somebody else is willing to pay, you deserve to lose that employee.

If your employee can't do the tasks you require of him, you fire him. If you can't pay your employees what they are worth, they go elsewhere. That's the way the world works.

Re: Steve Jobs personally asked Eric Schmidt to stop poaching employees

#77

Post by ceejayoz »

omonra wrote: post #18
josefresco wrote: post #8

I can only imagine how hard it is to have fair negotiations when a prospective employee applies at a competing company only to be told "no thanks" simply because of a hush hush agreement between the executives of said companies. This flies counter with Google's "do no evil" statement and certainly doesn't paint a positive posthumous picture of Jobs.

I'm tired of people bringing up 'don't do evil' EVERY time Google does something they dislike. New search results using personal targeting - EVIL! Anti-poaching agreement with Apple - EVIL! Closed down a bagel cafe next to my cubicle - EVIL! Can we all agree that the word Evil has a more sinister use - ie knowing endangering lives, environmental damage, maybe closing press freedoms? And, therefore, we should be more…

That's not how Google has defined "evil" in the past. Per Wikipedia:

> Buchheit, the creator of Gmail, said he "wanted something that, once you put it in there, would be hard to take out," adding that the slogan was "also a bit of a jab at a lot of the other companies, especially our competitors, who at the time, in our opinion, were kind of exploiting the users to some extent."

"Exploiting the users" doesn't fit your definition of "evil", but it appears to have fit Google's.

Re: Steve Jobs personally asked Eric Schmidt to stop poaching employees

#78

Post by malandrew »

asmithmd1 wrote: post #69
malandrew wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Hire slow. Fire fast." Would fast firing even be possible with long-term contracts? Firing fast isn't something that is done for the sake of saving money. It is done for the sake of avoiding the damaging effects of keeping someone on the team that hurts the productivity of the other team members.

You have never heard of a football player being cut from a team? Or being offered a one year contract? I am saying there are legal ways to prevent an employee from leaving a company but it costs the company money to have that privilege.

One year is a long time to have someone on a team that turns out to be a wrong hire. You normally figure out that someone isn't working out within the first 1-3 months. I've made a wrong hire before and it impacted the work of 5 other people. I and any other manager has an obligation to get rid of that one person if they are having a net negative effect on the work of others. To do otherwise would be a failure in my responsibilities to others on the team.

It's not like a manager can just "bench" an employee that isn't working out for them.

What would make sense, especially in a market where there is a crunch for talent is a guarantee from the company that if it doesn't work out, that the applicant, would get 1-2 months salary after being cut to look for another place to work.

(Also, to the person who down voted me: This is HN, not Reddit. You don't down vote because you disagree with what was said. You down vote them because their detracting from the conversation, such as trolling.)

Re: Steve Jobs personally asked Eric Schmidt to stop poaching employees

#79

Post by nyellin »

jamesaguilar wrote: post #75
badclient wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually I am shit surprised. Is there any chance of this becoming criminal?

It already is, hence the lawsuits.

No it isn't. IANAL, but I believe class action lawsuits deal with civil, not criminal, offenses.

Don't be so fast to downvote the grandparent if you didn't understand the question.

Re: Steve Jobs personally asked Eric Schmidt to stop poaching employees

#80

Post by angersock »

jballanc wrote: post #40

I think anyone whose opinion of Steve Jobs is changed by this knowledge needs to take a good look in the mirror and ask if they are not the hypocrite. Jobs always was a consumate businessman. Before Apple, even, he was scheming his way through a job, getting Wozniak to do his work and going back on his word to split profits. But isn't that what America is all about? Aren't your shoes, clothes, electronics, etc. made…

A great many of us actually do get annoyed at that behavior, and do get annoyed at lobbying.

EDIT: Removed inflammatory remark.

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