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Richard Stallman Was Right All Along

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Re: Richard Stallman Was Right All Along

#71

Post by rcthompson »

jonhendry wrote: post #40
jasonallen wrote: post #17

Agreed - Stallman was right all along. What's working against Stallman though is that his doomsday predictions are being delivered in piecemeal fashion. Each slight erosion doesn't seem too bad by itself. Only in retrospect does the magnitude of the problem reveal itself. Governments and corporations have evolved processes to change laws in such effective manners as to evade most human observation. tldr; No one tells…

I think the main flaw is that, no matter how popular GPL software becomes, it doesn't stop the government from saying "your machines need to run this closed-source software in order to be used or sold in this country".

That would be a difficult law to enforce without declaring martial law. If smartphones are any indication, it's difficult to design a device that cannot be convinced to run unauthorized code.

Re: Richard Stallman Was Right All Along

#72

Post by protomyth »

aamar wrote: post #39
protomyth wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Politifact isn't exactly the beacon of truth it purports to be either: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politifact - the SNL business was particularly odd

I agree that they've made errors, but they seem deserving of their fairly good reputation (not as high as, say, NYT).

I would imagine the same people and groups that have problems with Politifact also have problems with NYT much like the other side has problems with the WSJ and Fox News.

Re: Richard Stallman Was Right All Along

#73

Post by morpher »

morpher wrote: post #57

In Sec. 1021 (the one about indefinite detention power), it clearly states: (e) AUTHORITIES.—Nothing in this section shall be construed to affect existing law or authorities relating to the detention of United States citizens, lawful resident aliens of the United States, or any other persons who are captured or arrested in the United States. So, how does this give the president the supposed power to detain US citizen…

Ok. I see now how this can be abused. Is it saying:

(A) United States citizens, lawful resident aliens of the US, or (any other persons who are caputred or arrested in the US)

OR

B) (United States citizens, lawful resident aliens of the US, or any other persons) who are caputred or arrested in the US

If one reads this as B, then once a citizen accused of being a terrorist steps foot outside of the country, they are screwed.

Re: Richard Stallman Was Right All Along

#74

Post by strmpnk »

Richard Stallman may have been right about the issue but that doesn't mean is approach to solving these issues nor his philosophy are in the same bucket.

I'd say he's always been right to a point since what he said years ago was true then and happens to be true now at a larger scale. It's not necessarily prophetic, just keenly observant. Likewise we have more free software options today than we did in the past.

My personal opinion is that it'd be wrong to get rid of either end. Eliminating freedom from software ecosystems would be disastrous. Likewise, I don't think free solves all of our software problems either (one could possibly abstain from many things but that's avoiding not solving the problem). SOPA needs to be stopped but lets not assume that non-free software needs to be limited because of this. Live and let live (and never let your guard down).

Re: Richard Stallman Was Right All Along

#75

Post by SideburnsOfDoom »

rcthompson wrote: post #71
jonhendry wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the main flaw is that, no matter how popular GPL software becomes, it doesn't stop the government from saying "your machines need to run this closed-source software in order to be used or sold in this country".

That would be a difficult law to enforce without declaring martial law. If smartphones are any indication, it's difficult to design a device that cannot be convinced to run unauthorized code.

You're saying something different. "can run unauthorized code" is different from "must run this closed-source software". Both could be true at the same time.

What good is your free, open, secure channel if your phone is also a running mandatory rootkit, containing a GPS tracker and keylogger? See also: Carrier IQ.

Re: Richard Stallman Was Right All Along

#76

Post by 16s »

jonhendry wrote: post #40
jasonallen wrote: post #17

Agreed - Stallman was right all along. What's working against Stallman though is that his doomsday predictions are being delivered in piecemeal fashion. Each slight erosion doesn't seem too bad by itself. Only in retrospect does the magnitude of the problem reveal itself. Governments and corporations have evolved processes to change laws in such effective manners as to evade most human observation. tldr; No one tells…

I think the main flaw is that, no matter how popular GPL software becomes, it doesn't stop the government from saying "your machines need to run this closed-source software in order to be used or sold in this country".

I've heard that North Korea does something similar. People can buy software at Universities, etc. without question, but to get a computer they must go through the government.

Re: Richard Stallman Was Right All Along

#77

Post by msbarnett »

marquis wrote: post #67
chc wrote: post #62

This article is just a complete non sequitur. The Stallman angle has nothing to do with any of the problems it cites. Free software wouldn't prevent Obama from signing an indefinite detention bill, it won't stop the government from forcing ISPs and DNS roots to do harmful things — the benefits of free software are completely different things.

One example: the free software movement should lead to a better DNS system where governments and corporations will have no control over how and where we access information online. I continue to support the EFF and groups like it in order to have funds directed into research on critical issues like this. Would you prefer a GPL DNS or proprietary?

The current DNS system is based almost entirely on GPL software...

Re: Richard Stallman Was Right All Along

#78

Post by hammerdr »

jonhendry wrote: post #63
shadowfiend wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's extremely likely, given the criticality of the legislation to the military, that his veto would have been overridden by Congress. Unfortunately, sometimes you have to pick your fights. Then again, I'm extremely angry at him about this, too, so... Yeah, whatever. Heh. Though really I'm angry about the overall civil liberties history of the administration. This is just the proverbial straw.

"It's extremely likely, given the criticality of the legislation to the military, that his veto would have been overridden by Congress. " Maybe. Or they could drop the problematic bit and redo it. Either way, the paychecks would go out.

You have to understand that the system isn't that simple. Bills do not exist in a vacuum. You cannot view these things as independent and completely unrelated to everything else going around it.

Yes, the President could veto the bill but then the next few months becomes about him veto-ing a military appropriations bill. He would then need to explain to the American public why the freedoms it eroded were unacceptable and that their loved ones serving this country couldn't buy milk for a month. It would consume a significant amount of time and resources.

Like shadowfiend, I'm not defending the decision to make civil liberties a lower priority than other issues (I am vehemently against that), but if you want to be someone that is more than a whiner then you need to first understand and then work to change it.

Re: Richard Stallman Was Right All Along

#80

Post by pyrhho »

spodek wrote: post #53

"I, too, disregarded Stallman as way too extreme... Only a short while ago I would've declared this as pure paranoia - but with all that's been going on recently, it's no longer paranoia." I considered him extreme until I thought more about it, then came to agree with him on most major points... ... that was in 1993. Glad to see others here.

Since you recognised this issue so long ago, I'm sure you have some recommendations regarding how we can solve it?
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