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Richard Stallman Was Right All Along

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Re: Richard Stallman Was Right All Along

#51

Post by sigzero »

muhfuhkuh wrote: post #38
dpkendal wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A Nobel Peace Prize winner? The man who promised to close down Guantanamo Bay and has still yet to manage to do so? Whose election campaign promised "Change" yet whose only significant move in that way so far, in office for 3 years, is the repeal of DADT? The man who I (along with so many liberals) want desperately to believe in, but who just makes it too hard for us? Yes, that man.

The guy who also oversaw an economy that returned 401Ks to at least sane levels from -40% in 2007-8; the guy who actually said and then did get bin Laden; the guy who pushed for and signed a law that is as close to healthcare reform as anyone has gotten since Medicare was enacted almost 50 years ago; the guy who pulled us out of Iraq when the Republican candidate in 2008 said we should be there for 100 more years; th…

I am so glad that we voted for a President because now we can vote his ass out.

Re: Richard Stallman Was Right All Along

#52

Post by ori_b »

wycats wrote: post #2

It's worth noting that Obama, upon signing, issued a signing statement that said that he was against the indefinite detention provision, and importantly, that he would not indefinitely hold Americans without trial: "Moreover, I want to clarify that my Administration will not authorize the indefinite military detention without trial of American citizens. Indeed, I believe that doing so would break with our most import…

It's worth noting that indefinite detention is legal now, regardless of what Obama says his administration will do.

Re: Richard Stallman Was Right All Along

#53

Post by spodek »

"I, too, disregarded Stallman as way too extreme... Only a short while ago I would've declared this as pure paranoia - but with all that's been going on recently, it's no longer paranoia."

I considered him extreme until I thought more about it, then came to agree with him on most major points...

... that was in 1993.

Glad to see others here.

Re: Richard Stallman Was Right All Along

#56

Post by rbanffy »

muhfuhkuh wrote: post #38
dpkendal wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A Nobel Peace Prize winner? The man who promised to close down Guantanamo Bay and has still yet to manage to do so? Whose election campaign promised "Change" yet whose only significant move in that way so far, in office for 3 years, is the repeal of DADT? The man who I (along with so many liberals) want desperately to believe in, but who just makes it too hard for us? Yes, that man.

The guy who also oversaw an economy that returned 401Ks to at least sane levels from -40% in 2007-8; the guy who actually said and then did get bin Laden; the guy who pushed for and signed a law that is as close to healthcare reform as anyone has gotten since Medicare was enacted almost 50 years ago; the guy who pulled us out of Iraq when the Republican candidate in 2008 said we should be there for 100 more years; th…

> we should be there for 100 more years

You make several good points, but I'd like to remind you that pulling out of Iraq now is very risky. If Iraq becomes a theocracy (either through a civil war or - gasp - free elections), the US will probably be compelled to invade it again. By now, it seems that the cycle of invasion-rebuild-pullout is more profitable to the political-military-industrial complex than a single continuous invasion.

It's a war that should never have been started. Saddam Hussein was not a complete idiot and I am quite sure a negotiated transition over, say, 20 years, to a democratic society would have been possible.

Re: Richard Stallman Was Right All Along

#57

Post by morpher »

In Sec. 1021 (the one about indefinite detention power), it clearly states:

(e) AUTHORITIES.—Nothing in this section shall be construed to affect existing law or authorities relating to the detention of United States citizens, lawful resident aliens of the United States, or any other persons who are captured or arrested in the United States.

So, how does this give the president the supposed power to detain US citizens? (The oft quoted 'slippery' line about not requiring detention Americans is from the NEXT section, which is specifically about requiring detentions in some cases.

Re: Richard Stallman Was Right All Along

#58

Post by dpkendal »

muhfuhkuh wrote: post #38
dpkendal wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A Nobel Peace Prize winner? The man who promised to close down Guantanamo Bay and has still yet to manage to do so? Whose election campaign promised "Change" yet whose only significant move in that way so far, in office for 3 years, is the repeal of DADT? The man who I (along with so many liberals) want desperately to believe in, but who just makes it too hard for us? Yes, that man.

The guy who also oversaw an economy that returned 401Ks to at least sane levels from -40% in 2007-8; the guy who actually said and then did get bin Laden; the guy who pushed for and signed a law that is as close to healthcare reform as anyone has gotten since Medicare was enacted almost 50 years ago; the guy who pulled us out of Iraq when the Republican candidate in 2008 said we should be there for 100 more years; th…

> the guy who actually said and then did get bin Laden

I'm fairly sure that Obama himself didn't "get" bin Laden. The army worked to get information on his whereabouts, and the opportunity presented itself to the President. I'm fairly certain that, aside from discussions about tactical moves, all Obama did to "get" him was give the army the go-ahead for the operation.

> the guy who pushed for and signed a law that is as close to healthcare reform as anyone has gotten since Medicare was enacted almost 50 years ago

Which was itself mostly a sleazy compromise like DADT, barely worth celebrating.

---

Perhaps I was too hard on Obama. But his administration has been a failure on the whole, especially compared to the FDR-like, sweeping political moves promised during his election.

Re: Richard Stallman Was Right All Along

#59

Post by dpkendal »

jonhendry wrote: post #47
paulhauggis wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is exactly who I mean. People seem to have short memories. "A Nobel Peace Prize winner?" For doing what exactly? This actually makes me question the entire Nobel Peace Prize program.

It was questionable when Henry Kissinger won it.

"Political satire became obsolete when Henry Kissinger was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Lehrer#Departure_from_the_m...

Re: Richard Stallman Was Right All Along

#60

Post by vacri »

wycats wrote: post #2

It's worth noting that Obama, upon signing, issued a signing statement that said that he was against the indefinite detention provision, and importantly, that he would not indefinitely hold Americans without trial: "Moreover, I want to clarify that my Administration will not authorize the indefinite military detention without trial of American citizens. Indeed, I believe that doing so would break with our most import…

As a citizen of a country very strongly allied with the US, but not an American citizen myself, that statement scares me.
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