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FCC commissioner says government should ban TikTok

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Re: FCC commissioner says government should ban TikTok

#71

Post by dontreact »

sosodev wrote: post #65
legitster wrote: post #60

The whole emergence of TikTok in the US was an almost hilariously slow moving policy crisis. We know it's nefarious, but no one has really figured out a coherent reason of why . Like, even before it really took off in the states you could read reports of this highly addictive, nefarious platform that the CCP had their fingers all over getting ready to be bottled up and shipped over to the US. So now that it's here, w…

Do we know it's nefarious? I don't think we've seen any proof or as you pointed out we would know why

There have been repeated reports of negative outcomes as a result of TikTok trends. There have been investigations into the amount of information the app collects and it is far beyond what other apps do (all without user consent). The app is clearly highly addictive.

What sorts of proof would convince you that this is an addictive app that is causing harm?

Re: FCC commissioner says government should ban TikTok

#72

Post by TSiege »

kibwen wrote: post #58
nicolashahn wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very related ban of Huawei, ZTE tech: https://www.theverge.com/2018/8/13/17686310/huawei-zte-us-go... It was known that these companies actively work with the CCP against US interests, which is the same thing happening with TikTok now.

That's a bill that went through congress, and it only applies to the government's own use of those company's products (which I agree with on several fronts).

I don't think you realize the scope of this part from the article linked, "In the end, Congress decided on a measure that will essentially ban the US government or anyone that wants to work with the US government from using components from Huawei, ZTE, or a number of other Chinese communications companies." The "anyone that wants to work with the US government" is incredibly broad and effectively banned them from our telecom industry and many others.

Here's another article > On Sunday, May 19, 2019, Google publicly declared that it would be complying with Trump’s Huawei ban. Interpreting the language of the order, Google determined that the proper course of action would be to cut Huawei off from Google’s suite of digital products. [...] Not long after Google made its announcement, other US-based companies followed suit. This included Qualcomm, Intel, Arm, Microsoft, and many more.

https://www.androidauthority.com/huawei-google-android-ban-9...

Re: FCC commissioner says government should ban TikTok

#73

Post by trunnell »

kibwen wrote: post #37

Just like last time this came up, what actual law is the executive branch accusing TikTok of breaking? I'm no fan of TikTok nor of the CCP and its asymmetric corporate warfare, but the executive branch must not be allowed to invent its own laws.

The executive branch is responsible for foreign policy and national security.

This issue is about a hostile foreign government being in a position to manipulate the internal communications and political debate in the US. So it's more in the realm of foreign policy and national security rather than US corporate law.

(Surprising to see this comment downvoted - why?)

Re: FCC commissioner says government should ban TikTok

#74

Post by Rebelgecko »

kibwen wrote: post #58
nicolashahn wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very related ban of Huawei, ZTE tech: https://www.theverge.com/2018/8/13/17686310/huawei-zte-us-go... It was known that these companies actively work with the CCP against US interests, which is the same thing happening with TikTok now.

That's a bill that went through congress, and it only applies to the government's own use of those company's products (which I agree with on several fronts).

Executive branch put Huawei on doc's entity list, which means US businesses can only interact with Huawei in limited situations with explicit licensing from the export control folks.

Re: FCC commissioner says government should ban TikTok

#75

Post by colechristensen »

trunnell wrote: post #68

Duh. No reasonable adult (in any country) would go on the record to propose that a hostile foreign government should run any part of their internal communication infrastructure. It's well documented that all companies in China are beholden to the political whims of the Chinese Communist Party; when national security is at issue, Chinese companies and the Chinese government are one entity, sadly. I'm squinting skeptic…

Comparing tiktok to the post office circa 1940 is… an odd choice.

Tiktok is more like a foreign power owning playboy and mad magazine. People making dumb videos for a laugh isn’t critical communications infrastructure it’s entertainment. Banning ZTE and Huawei makes sense… but if your culture and infrastructure is so sensitive that Chinese ownership of dumb entertainment is a threat… you’ve really already lost.

If tiktok as foreign spyware is a problem, ban the mechanisms of surveillance, everyone does it and it’s not only a problem when China is in control of the data.

Re: FCC commissioner says government should ban TikTok

#76

Post by kevinventullo »

trunnell wrote: post #68

Duh. No reasonable adult (in any country) would go on the record to propose that a hostile foreign government should run any part of their internal communication infrastructure. It's well documented that all companies in China are beholden to the political whims of the Chinese Communist Party; when national security is at issue, Chinese companies and the Chinese government are one entity, sadly. I'm squinting skeptic…

My TikTok feed is mostly stand up comics and absurd sketches from American 20-somethings. I think characterizing TT as “internal communication infrastructure” is a massive stretch.

That said, I could see the argument that what TT chooses to censor or uprank is a kind of soft power that could influence American attitudes over time. But I’m not sure this is any more significant than say, Chinese influence on what Disney chooses to include or not include in their films.

Re: FCC commissioner says government should ban TikTok

#77

Post by ceejayoz »

kibwen wrote: post #57
nicolashahn wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think preventing the CCP from accessing private data of American citizens probably falls under normal statecraft actions

Agreed, and "espionage" is a fine answer, but that raises the question of why they haven't gone as far as explicitly saying "espionage".

Likely because it'll become a political football, as everything these days does. "Biden took away your TikToks!" "Here's 23 articles about sad influencers who lost their accounts!"

Re: FCC commissioner says government should ban TikTok

#78

Post by ajsnigrutin »

nicolashahn wrote: post #49
kibwen wrote: post #37

Just like last time this came up, what actual law is the executive branch accusing TikTok of breaking? I'm no fan of TikTok nor of the CCP and its asymmetric corporate warfare, but the executive branch must not be allowed to invent its own laws.

I think preventing the CCP from accessing private data of American citizens probably falls under normal statecraft actions

It's funny how when some other country blocks access to eg. facebook, we're immediately talking about how undemocratic that is, how people should protest, etc.

I'm not sure what data exactly tiktok collects, but i'm pretty sure it's not a lot more than what facebook does.

Re: FCC commissioner says government should ban TikTok

#79

Post by t-3 »

emkoemko wrote: post #18
sahila wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is it fine that we allow freedom when another country restricts freedom - is that your question? Should we also be against Uighurs like they are in China? I don't think we should bow down to the lowest denominator and instead still appeal to what's best for all people.

so we good with their GDP growing from using our markets? while they have concentration camps? why are we propping them up if your about freedom?

The US also imprisons vast quantities of people and forces them to work. We are also heavily dependent on China economically and any US administration would lose a lot of support from the business class if they started mandating economic decoupling.

Re: FCC commissioner says government should ban TikTok

#80

Post by trunnell »

colechristensen wrote: post #75
trunnell wrote: post #68

Duh. No reasonable adult (in any country) would go on the record to propose that a hostile foreign government should run any part of their internal communication infrastructure. It's well documented that all companies in China are beholden to the political whims of the Chinese Communist Party; when national security is at issue, Chinese companies and the Chinese government are one entity, sadly. I'm squinting skeptic…

Comparing tiktok to the post office circa 1940 is… an odd choice. Tiktok is more like a foreign power owning playboy and mad magazine. People making dumb videos for a laugh isn’t critical communications infrastructure it’s entertainment. Banning ZTE and Huawei makes sense… but if your culture and infrastructure is so sensitive that Chinese ownership of dumb entertainment is a threat… you’ve really already lost. If ti…

People underestimate the power of TikTok to influence opinion.

Strangely, TikTok makes up a large part of the "information diet" for a lot of people. It's tough to find a great analog from 1930, but I think the postal service analogy is in the ballpark.

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