Six Days without Food: Hacking Your Mind to Make Do with Far Less • Hacker News Board

Re: Six Days without Food: Hacking Your Mind to Make Do with Far Less

#71

Post by Cushman » Tue, Dec 06, 2011, 4:15 PM UTC

js2 wrote: post #68

Cushman wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have a response to Gary Taubes et al. who have observed in recent years that the "calories in vs. calories out" hypothesis has no basis in the science of human metabolism, and that insulin, the hormone secreted in response to consumption of carbohydrates, has a very well-understood and primary role in fat storage?

You might want to read the conclusion (last paragraph) here, then go back and read how Stephan arrived at it: http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2011/08/carbohydrate-h...

Thanks for the link! It's cool to see real discussion happening. I'm actually coming more from Robert Lustig's attack on fructose, which I know is much more specific than carb intake in general. I was aware there was controversy about it-- obviously I shouldn't be so quick to name Taubes.

Really, as someone who very easily went from overweight to fit purely by replacing carbs with fats, I'm just very reluctant to accept the thermodynamic hypothesis.

Re: Six Days without Food: Hacking Your Mind to Make Do with Far Less

#72

Post by sorbits » Tue, Dec 06, 2011, 4:24 PM UTC

fingerprinter wrote: post #14

I'm going to jump right into the idea of fasting for 6 days and the unfortunate reality that most people in our field(s) don't. 1. know how to lose weight (really) 2. know how to eat 3. know how to workout Here, if you want to try fasting, which I do recommend, give this a shot. http://www.leangains.com/ or do the Warrior diet (one huge meal a day). A 16/8 fast is great. Heck, I sometimes even do an eat-stop-eat way…

The diet you describe appears to be http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paleolithic_diet

(figured a label and link would be good for people who wish to research further)

Re: Six Days without Food: Hacking Your Mind to Make Do with Far Less

#73

Post by baddspellar » Tue, Dec 06, 2011, 4:25 PM UTC

Radical, one-time, short-term actions like this aren't lifestyle changes. They're not sustainable, so they don't work in the long term.

If the author said he made sustainable lifestyle changes I'd have some reason to believe he's won his weight battle. If he said he's been getting up an hour early each morning for the past 3 months to walk, or has been learning how to prepare tasty low-calorie meals and has kept that up for the past 3 months, or has taken up cycling and has commuted to the office by bike every day it would be a different story. I know plenty of people who've done these things and successfully kept their weight down indefinitely.

On the other hand, I know plenty of people who've lost weight with short term, unsustainable diets, and who gained every pound of that back.

Re: Six Days without Food: Hacking Your Mind to Make Do with Far Less

#74

Post by twelvechairs » Tue, Dec 06, 2011, 4:43 PM UTC

wavephorm wrote: post #37

fingerprinter wrote: post #14

I'm going to jump right into the idea of fasting for 6 days and the unfortunate reality that most people in our field(s) don't. 1. know how to lose weight (really) 2. know how to eat 3. know how to workout Here, if you want to try fasting, which I do recommend, give this a shot. http://www.leangains.com/ or do the Warrior diet (one huge meal a day). A 16/8 fast is great. Heck, I sometimes even do an eat-stop-eat way…

every meal has protein Contrary to popular belief, meat doesn't need to be eaten with every meal. The idea that humans require huge amounts of protein is a popular day myth. Vegetables do contain protein, even an average potato has 3g protein. Almost universally, everyone who is overweight eats entirely too much meat and dairy.

Agreed. You don't need huge amounts of protein if your main goal is weight loss or health (as opposed to muscle gain).... There are way too many of these 'fitness' people out there who think that everyone should eat as much protein as possible and aim their body towards being a mountain of underutilised muscle (apparently this counts as 'fitness' in some circles).....

Protein is fine, but you don't need an awful lot of it to lose weight. A little muscle gain can be helpful to make sure you can exercise more, but you can achieve this on a pretty low-protein diet anyway.

Re: Six Days without Food: Hacking Your Mind to Make Do with Far Less

#75

Post by cmhamill » Tue, Dec 06, 2011, 4:57 PM UTC

DanBC wrote: post #2

I've known a few people with Anorexia Nervosa. Not just "skip a few meals, look a bit thin" anorexia, but "detained in hospital against their will in wheel-chairs with forced NG tube feeding BMI of 14" anorexics. It's pretty scary that they describe very similar feelings as you do, and you only did that for a few weeks. Also, people with bulimia tend to be overweight exactly because of the cycle of fasting and bingin…

Not to be a big nerd, but I couldn't help thinking of the Ted Leo + Pharmacists Song "Me and Mia" while reading this. Particularly the line:

> Sick to death of my dependence, fighting food to find transcendence

> Fighting to survive, more dead but more alive

It's an often under-acknowledged aspect of those who struggle with obesity that many of the same impulses and issues underly over-eating and under-eating.

As someone who has both struggled with obesity my whole life and been drawn to fasting and extremity in fighting that goal, I would add one, very specific warning:

Rarely is self-deprivation the right way to fight addiction, depression, or lack of self-esteem.

Re: Six Days without Food: Hacking Your Mind to Make Do with Far Less

#76

Post by MatthewPhillips » Tue, Dec 06, 2011, 5:06 PM UTC

emp_ wrote: post #55

fingerprinter wrote: post #14

I'm going to jump right into the idea of fasting for 6 days and the unfortunate reality that most people in our field(s) don't. 1. know how to lose weight (really) 2. know how to eat 3. know how to workout Here, if you want to try fasting, which I do recommend, give this a shot. http://www.leangains.com/ or do the Warrior diet (one huge meal a day). A 16/8 fast is great. Heck, I sometimes even do an eat-stop-eat way…

I was just thinking about this, will give the Warrior diet a try (never did a diet, at 211 lbs 5'9") but mostly because I've been eating really little (fish+rice+lettuce salad) in the past 3 months without much effect. The idea of only eating a nice meal at night is great to me since I hate the food around work (from fast to fancy), and dislike bringing it everyday from home even tho I absolutely love the wife's cook…

Did you already lose your water weight? If not, drink 10 8-ounce glasses of water a day, and you'll lose 10-15 in less than a month.

I don't know about this "one big meal a day" stuff. I used to do that as my normal diet in my early to mid 20s (not trying to lose weight) and it did not keep me in shape. I lost weight when I started eating more, normal sized meals (yogurt or granola for breakfast, sandwich and apple for lunch, fish and rice for dinner).

Re: Six Days without Food: Hacking Your Mind to Make Do with Far Less

#77

Post by RyanHolliday » Tue, Dec 06, 2011, 5:10 PM UTC

maeon3 wrote: post #18

If you fast, when you stop fasting you will gain 20 pounds because your brain and body will be in "famine mode" and you will store everything to fat. Go ahead and try it. I've been hovering around 155 to 160 my whole life, that is until the day I fasted for about 2 1/2 days, at which point I immediately started gaining weight after. It's been a daily battle since to not overeat. My subconscious mind says: "Eat, consu…

I don't want to discount your experience, but as with a post advocating for fasting, you need to put a personal experience/your mileage may vary disclaimer on here, because your experience isn't going to be what everyone will experience.

I've done fasting in pretty varied ways. The longest was for eight days. What I usually do now is a 24-hour fast: dinner, skip the following breakfast and lunch, and then dinner.

When I fasted for eight days, I dropped about ten pounds. On a 24-hour cycle of fasting, I will drop between 1 and 2 pounds a day depending on activity level. I have never had the experience of gaining 20lb after fasting, nor have I ever felt like I was in famine mode. I think I gain weight a bit quicker than before I started doing the 24-hour fasts, but at the same time, it drops off quicker, too (it's true that fasting changes how your body stores and uses fat).

If you go from fasting back to junk food binges three or four times a day, yes, you will (unsurprisingly) gain the weight back. If you're putting 6k calories a day in, nothing about the effects of that are going to go away after your fast. If you go from fasting back to a reasonably balanced diet, the weight isn't coming back--if you aren't overeating, how could it?

This has been my experience. Your mileage may vary. I am not a doctor and this is not medical advice.

Re: Six Days without Food: Hacking Your Mind to Make Do with Far Less

#78

Post by gizmo » Tue, Dec 06, 2011, 5:27 PM UTC

fingerprinter wrote: post #14

I'm going to jump right into the idea of fasting for 6 days and the unfortunate reality that most people in our field(s) don't. 1. know how to lose weight (really) 2. know how to eat 3. know how to workout Here, if you want to try fasting, which I do recommend, give this a shot. http://www.leangains.com/ or do the Warrior diet (one huge meal a day). A 16/8 fast is great. Heck, I sometimes even do an eat-stop-eat way…

This is exactly the kind of situation where a little advice can be dangerous. Going from a sedentary lifestyle to sprinting, deadlifts, kettlebell exercises or other intense activities is a recipe for disaster.

I agree with most of your advice and the implicit part that carbohydrates are the enemy and fat/protein your friend. However, the part that's dangerously missing is that your body takes a lot longer to recover from exercise than you think and that overtraining can set you back weeks or even lead to permanent injuries.

Re: Six Days without Food: Hacking Your Mind to Make Do with Far Less

#79

Post by rmgraham » Tue, Dec 06, 2011, 5:34 PM UTC

ebbv wrote: post #43

z0r wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

http://www.t-nation.com/readArticle.do?id=1526539 Summary: resistance training is most effective, then interval training (high intensity and lower intensity), and then steady state high intensity cardio training, and finally least effective steady state low intensity cardio training.

What a shock that a body building website would say that. I can't believe it. Let me ask Microsoft if I should use Linux for my servers or not, hold on BRB. The reality is that an hour of cardio is going to burn many, many more calories than 15 minutes of lifting. Now, if you hate cardio and can't stand to do it for an hour, but you love lifting, then obviously you're better off lifting. But if you can learn to enjoy…

Both are better than doing nothing.

It's generally much easier to find time for 15 minutes of X than 60 minutes of Y.

In HN terms, you are arguing about which type of balanced tree is better but are ignoring the fact the data is only 100 items long and you're much better off just pushing out your MVP than agonizing over the inefficiency of one over the other.

Re: Six Days without Food: Hacking Your Mind to Make Do with Far Less

#80

Post by dhs » Tue, Dec 06, 2011, 5:36 PM UTC

hmottestad wrote: post #65

ebbv wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What a shock that a body building website would say that. I can't believe it. Let me ask Microsoft if I should use Linux for my servers or not, hold on BRB. The reality is that an hour of cardio is going to burn many, many more calories than 15 minutes of lifting. Now, if you hate cardio and can't stand to do it for an hour, but you love lifting, then obviously you're better off lifting. But if you can learn to enjoy…

Keep in mind secondary and tertiary effects. 1. How many calories used to rebuild and strengthen the muscles? 2. How many more calories do your bigger and stronger muscles burn even when not in use? This goes for both cardio and weight lifting.

re. 2: Not many, according to the sources I can find on that. Example: "[M]uscle tissue has been observed to burn roughly seven to 10 calories per pound per day, compared to two to three calories per pound per day for fat. Therefore, if you replace a pound of fat with a pound of muscle, you can expect to burn only approximately four to six more calories a day."

Source: http://www.acefitness.org/fitnessqanda/fitnessqanda_display....