Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

TikTok Parent ByteDance Sees Losses Swell in Push for Growth

wsj.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

71–80 of 83 posts

Re: TikTok Parent ByteDance Sees Losses Swell in Push for Growth

#71

Post by walrus01 »

lossolo wrote: post #69
walrus01 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chinese domestic companies are legally obligated to provide a direct data pipeline from their databases to the Ministry of State Security. It's a real law that exists. Basically imagine what the NSA implemented with the PRISM program revealed by Snowden but formally codified into law and with active participation/engineering efforts required by the corporations.

They are working on a deal with US, all data for US citizens will be kept in US[1]. And some info about it from them directly: "As we recently shared with members of Congress, we are working toward a new system in which access to U.S. user data by anyone outside of USDS will be limited by, and subject to, robust data access protocols with monitoring and oversight mechanisms by Oracle."[2] 1. https://arstechnica.com/t…

doesn't mean their office and staff in china don't remotely have access to the data or the ability to replicate it.

Re: TikTok Parent ByteDance Sees Losses Swell in Push for Growth

#72

Post by lossolo »

walrus01 wrote: post #71
lossolo wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are working on a deal with US, all data for US citizens will be kept in US[1]. And some info about it from them directly: "As we recently shared with members of Congress, we are working toward a new system in which access to U.S. user data by anyone outside of USDS will be limited by, and subject to, robust data access protocols with monitoring and oversight mechanisms by Oracle."[2] 1. https://arstechnica.com/t…

doesn't mean their office and staff in china don't remotely have access to the data or the ability to replicate it.

I think it's addressed in sources I've linked, there is a whole section describing who have access to data of US citizens. Additionally I don't think US administration will just let them do it (share whatever they want with China), if a deal will be made then US citizens will control who is and how that data is accessed outside US through Oracle, otherwise they would just be banned as national security threat.

Re: TikTok Parent ByteDance Sees Losses Swell in Push for Growth

#73

Post by afiori »

waffleiron wrote: post #60
afiori wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it particularly different from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CLOUD_Act ?

The main difference is that HN is mainly visited by American users, not affected by CLOUD act.

The CLOUD Act affects all US companies.

Re: TikTok Parent ByteDance Sees Losses Swell in Push for Growth

#74

Post by parker_mountain »

user_named wrote: post #6
parker_mountain wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, I don't agree with OP, but the Chinese government is way more involved with its companies than the US is. Here, ostensibly, there's a court and legal process - versus China, where the government has all data by default. So, any Chinese tech company is de facto going to have all of its data accessible by the Chinese government, by default.

It's interesting to see you make these claims when you know nothing about the workings of the legal system in China.

> know nothing about the workings of the legal system in China

Hello, I'm an appsec engineer working on product privacy for a large multinational company. I have a pretty accurate, battle tested, mental model about data privacy w/r/t international verticals. I have worked with our China vertical and also worked on key escrow separation models. You might even be able to figure out which company, based on the above.

It's interesting to see you make these claims about me when you know nothing about me.

Re: TikTok Parent ByteDance Sees Losses Swell in Push for Growth

#76

Post by dylan604 »

ryantgtg wrote: post #54
dylan604 wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"You don't speak for the ~7.7B people not in the US." vs "You don't speak for me" One of those comments is speaking for a lot more people

Where did you get "you don't speak for me"? It's "I can tell you that to us you're all the same" vs "You don't speak for the ~7.7B people not in the US." One person is trying to speak for 7.7B and the other is advising against that.

>Where did you get "you don't speak for me"?

It was an example of how to state unambiguously who was/was not being spoken for to contrast with the other statement. Maybe because I put it in quotes led you to think I was quoting someone, but it looked odd without to me.

Re: TikTok Parent ByteDance Sees Losses Swell in Push for Growth

#77

Post by user_named »

dnissley wrote: post #15
AlexandrB wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this also true for highly-funded, money-losing SV startups focusing on growth. Why or why not?

The answer is simple: In the US it's a scandal if the government has open access without a warrant to private citizen data held by companies. In China that's just considered business as usual.

No, it's only a scandal when information about that access leaks.

The US government still has and has always had access to all data about US citizens.

Bizarre that you think that stopped.

Re: TikTok Parent ByteDance Sees Losses Swell in Push for Growth

#78

Post by user_named »

dnissley wrote: post #70
AlexandrB wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is a common response. But even though the Snowden revelations were a "scandal", nothing bad really happened to the perpetrators. And the FISA court that rubber-stamped the data collection is still operating and still rubber-stamping government surveillance. So, how is it not business as usual in the US? Consider also how law enforcement now has warrantless access to individuals' location data thanks to d…

> even though the Snowden revelations were a "scandal", nothing bad really happened to the perpetrators This is true, and bad, but consider another difference in this situation: In the US, companies were able to respond to this revelation by shoring up their security practices, and people exercised their right to openly criticize the government. This is not possible in China.

Security practices? They collaborated with the NSA, CIA, what have you. You are really deluded.

Re: TikTok Parent ByteDance Sees Losses Swell in Push for Growth

#80

Post by sumedh »

pb7 wrote: post #26
angio wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But they took part in illegal surveillance programmes in the past.

>illegal Exactly. What's illegal here is perfectly fine in China. Let's not equate the two. US government may get data from US companies but at least it takes a warrant. Chinese government straight up owns the servers.

> US government may get data from US companies but at least it takes a warrant.

On December 16, 2005, The New York Times reported that the Bush administration had been conducting surveillance against U.S. citizens without specific approval from the FISA court for each case since 2002.

In 2011, the Obama administration secretly won permission from the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court to reverse restrictions on the National Security Agency's use of intercepted phone calls and e-mails, permitting the agency to search deliberately for Americans' communications in its massive databases.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Foreign_Intellig...

Post reply on HN