Interesting, but this part is pretty weasily: "...told by parents and teachers that intelligent people didn't use drugs. Turns out, the adults _may_ have been wrong." As an unqualified statement, it is definitely wrong, and was demonstrably wrong at the time: Carl Sagan, Richard Feynman, Paul Erdos...
High IQ linked to drug use
71–80 of 85 posts
Re: High IQ linked to drug use
#72Earlier quoted context omitted.
"Indeed the idea that only stupid people do drugs is part of this propaganda." That's not propaganda. It's numbers. Doing drugs = high risk. And it's stupid to take high risks with your body, unless you don't mind dying young. I've never understood why many 'tech' people are so pro drugs. Why do you need it?
High risk? I'd argue driving on heavy traffic a payday is a whole lot more dangerous than smoking a joint while you wait for rush hour to pass. Doing drugs can be as dangerous as skydiving without a parachute or as safe as staying home a friday night... It's not the drugs that are dangerous, it's the users; the same way it's not that a toy is dangerous, but that you're giving the toy to a two year old when it meant f…
Addiction can strike anyone at any time. To say that drugs are not dangerous is disingenuous.
Re: High IQ linked to drug use
#73Earlier quoted context omitted.
"IQ is heritable, but the catch is that it may, in fact, only be heritable through the mother's half of the genes contributed to the child [1]." Do you have a source for this that isn't, um, from the Simpsons? Geneticists have an equation for estimating the response to selection, the change in IQ from parent to offspring, and it uses an average of both parents' IQ. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heritability#Respon…
"Do you have a source for this that isn't, um, from the Simpsons?" My Simpsons reference was meant to be a colorful analogy, and not a "source." Sheesh. The source for my statement was journal article I read a few months back. I can't seem to track it down online, but here's a blog that summarizes the studies: http://flatrock.org.nz/topics/men/thank_mom_for_brains.htm Like I said, the jury is still out on this. This…
Novel claims require evidence.
Here is another link: http://discovermagazine.com/2005/oct/sex
There are more genes related to intelligence on the X chromosome than on just the X and Y chromosomes. There are still 22 other pairs of chromosomes, which in offspring, are a mishmash of the father and mother's chromosomes. Genes on these chromosomes have been experimentally linked with intelligence (eg, http://genepi.qimr.edu.au/contents/p/staff/CV453.pdf)
Plus, there are sex differences in intelligence; there are more male dullards and geniuses. Men score higher on visuospatial ability, and women on verbal ability. Given that these are distinctly sex related, their genesis lies in differences between the X and Y chromosomes.
Re: High IQ linked to drug use
#74Earlier quoted context omitted.
"Why do you need it?" No one needs it. I doubt anyone will argue they need it unless they're addicted to something that has produced withdrawl in which case they really do need it. But the problem with this kind of mentality is that it lumps all drugs in as "bad". This is part of the failure of our current prevention and education system. Telling the kids all drugs are bad leads to more use. They'll try some pot firs…
"Telling the kids all drugs are bad leads to more use. They'll try some pot first" Sorry, but I disagree. Some kids are brought up well, to respect authority, the law and to respect their bodies. Not everyone tries drugs. Blame the parents... "First, we need to put marijuana in the same class as alcohol and cigarettes. A little weed doesn't hurt anyone." I'd go for that as long as cigarettes and marijuana are both il…
Unless I'm mistaken you're talking opinions. I'm speaking not only from experience but from facts gathered through working with local and federal agencies and public and private researchers and the studies all support what I said.
I might have used some blunt language but it's true. It doesn't matter how kids are brought up. It's a fact of nature that adolescents are hard wired to rebel against whatever they were taught at home. They test their upbringing and usually come out the other end believing what they were taught to begin with plus or minus a few beliefs but in the middle they almost always try to see what's up for themselves. You'd be surprised how many kids who grew up in wonderful moral families end up abusing or addicted to drugs. The founder of the organization Im part of is a retired Chicago PD officer with a number of degrees in education. He brought his son up in a well off upper-middle class neighborhood with good schools and strong morals. This family might as well have the Brady Bunch. But his son got mixed in with heroin and died after a long struggle with addiction. This was exactly the type of kid you say won't use.
See, that's the big problem. Everyone thinks its a moral failing and they take the attitude that it's the neighbor's kid but never mine until it happens to you. There are so so many families this has happened to and their afraid to warn others for fear of being labelled bad parents who didn't provide a solid moral ethic to pass down to their kid(s).
I am a smoker and I'm happy to admit that others done want to breathe in my second hand smoke. I'll also give you the rule on smoking 15 feet away from buildings is a good one too. But there's a fine line where legislation doesn't need to go. Banning it in public altogether is just ridiculous. We're all adults. We can say something if we want a smoker to leave the middle of the street. I mean cigarettes are legal and public areas are public. Leave the poor smokers alone when they're not bothering you. You can also choose to walk away. I mean, we not do it for 5 minutes at a time. You won't get cancer in those minutes. Please don't take my freedom away from me. What if I don't want your crying child or strong perfume or breast feedi near me? I'm not going to make it illegal because it inconveniences me.
But what really bothered me about that last paragraph was how you called it "drug addict" smoke. Yes, they are addicts technically but using those words in a derogatory way like that just perpetuates the stigma carried by addicts. We aren't sun-humans, bottom feeders, or somehow just some class of undesirables. We're your friends, neighbors, and family and we need help. Most of us are incredibly intelligent and have a lot to offer society if we could just get the help we need. I know how bad the behavior of an addict can be because I am one but all of deserve a chance to get better before being written off.
Re: High IQ linked to drug use
#75Earlier quoted context omitted.
"Why do you need it?" No one needs it. I doubt anyone will argue they need it unless they're addicted to something that has produced withdrawl in which case they really do need it. But the problem with this kind of mentality is that it lumps all drugs in as "bad". This is part of the failure of our current prevention and education system. Telling the kids all drugs are bad leads to more use. They'll try some pot firs…
Two points. First, I believe the parlance is recovering addict. If you choose to subscribe to the 12 step method of recovery, you are never fully "recovered" from addiction. Second, marijuana, alcohol, and cigarettes are all gateway substances. The dangers of these mood altering drugs are self-evident. It seems to me that we should be doing everything possible to educate people before they get hooked, not try and dea…
Excuse me, you're right. I am technically recovering. I choose to say recovered because not everyone understands that terminology and some might assume I'm currently in treatment or the beginning stages of recovery. I feel like saying recovered sends a message that now I've been sober for quite some time and totally stable and living the same kind of life anyone else would (job, car, family, what have you). I also tend to use the word sober over clean but many don't know the difference between those either.
In any case you're right. We do need to deal with them before getting addicted, not after. It's much cheaper and easier to prevent than anything else. Good education starts with getting real about substances and the process of addiction, not scaring people. The scare method just created a generation that assumes drug users have a moral failing and that's where the stigma comes from. Meanwhile the users are languishing in prison or on the streets not getting the help they need and deserve.
Re: High IQ linked to drug use
#76Earlier quoted context omitted.
"Telling the kids all drugs are bad leads to more use. They'll try some pot first" Sorry, but I disagree. Some kids are brought up well, to respect authority, the law and to respect their bodies. Not everyone tries drugs. Blame the parents... "First, we need to put marijuana in the same class as alcohol and cigarettes. A little weed doesn't hurt anyone." I'd go for that as long as cigarettes and marijuana are both il…
Unless I'm mistaken you're talking opinions. I'm speaking not only from experience but from facts gathered through working with local and federal agencies and public and private researchers and the studies all support what I said. I might have used some blunt language but it's true. It doesn't matter how kids are brought up. It's a fact of nature that adolescents are hard wired to rebel against whatever they were tau…
I only meant "drug addict smoke" in the same way I'd moan about a morbidly obese person sitting next to me on a flight. It's antisocial behavior.
It's not getting cancer I'm worried about, it's the disgusting smell, making me+my kids cough etc. You may as well go up to people in the street and burp and fart in their face - it's as disgusting.
I know, I lack empathy etc. But I still believe most of it comes down to proper parenting. I don't have all the answers, but I don't believe legalizing more drugs is the way forward.
Re: High IQ linked to drug use
#77Earlier quoted context omitted.
Two points. First, I believe the parlance is recovering addict. If you choose to subscribe to the 12 step method of recovery, you are never fully "recovered" from addiction. Second, marijuana, alcohol, and cigarettes are all gateway substances. The dangers of these mood altering drugs are self-evident. It seems to me that we should be doing everything possible to educate people before they get hooked, not try and dea…
Excuse me, you're right. I am technically recover ing . I choose to say recovered because not everyone understands that terminology and some might assume I'm currently in treatment or the beginning stages of recovery. I feel like saying recovered sends a message that now I've been sober for quite some time and totally stable and living the same kind of life anyone else would (job, car, family, what have you). I also…
FWIW, I believe the scare method worked for me... I see celebs in magazines all the time with drug problems, you read about their car crash lives, then they usually die young. That, coupled with the fact that it's illegal made me decide early on "Yeah, I won't try drugs thanks".
(I'm in the UK so the culture etc may be different).
Re: High IQ linked to drug use
#78I know a fair amount about IQ, having studied it a bit, and I'm surprised. IQ correlates pretty strongly, with law abiding behavior, at the very least, not going to jail. High IQ people are less socially dysfunctional than average and low IQ people, eg see the table here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bell_Curve As for the sex difference between men and women of high IQ, fewer women in general do drugs, so it's ea…
"Not going to jail" != "law abiding behavior". Especially when you get class issues involved.
Getting picked up for smoking pot or petty vandalism in the suburbs often ends in a trip home to mom and dad after a very stern scare. In the city, it's another statistic for this month's arrests.
Re: High IQ linked to drug use
#79My guess is that this phenomenon has something to do with boredom (as mentioned in the article). I have never studied IQ, but when I reflect on the IQ tests that I take I realize that a big part of my problem solving process involves rapidly imagining potential solutions and mentally "testing" them to see if they make sense.
Does anyone know what this type of thinking is called?
Anyways, that's how I think when I'm trying to solve a puzzle. I notice that the hard part is not in testing my imagined hypotheses, but in hypothesis generation. Where am I going with this? Imagination. I've noticed that my ability to rapidly imagine different scenarios is a key part of my ability to solve difficult problems. There are other components, like working memory, logic, etc, but imagination plays a big role. At least for me.
If what is true for me is true in general it could mean that people who are more inclined to imagine complex alternative worlds in their heads are also more likely to enjoy the "out of the ordinary" mental states provided by drugs and alcohol.
Re: High IQ linked to drug use
#80Earlier quoted context omitted.
"It always seems to be the idiots and suggestibles that end up with the heroin addiction." Really? You mean like, W.S. Burroughs, Kurt Cobain, Patrick Kroupa, Edgar Allen Poe (although he used opium), Janis Joplin, Jimi Hendrix, John Belushi, Jim Morrison, and a lot of other people who like to keep their addictions hidden least they be stigmatized as junkies? I know it's so tempting to just classify a certain class o…
Couldn't agree more. Having spent some time living near a lot of junkies, it seems the people that got addicted to heroin were the people who tried heroin. You could hardly say they were idiots to try heroin - the pushers are fairly good marketers, get somebody fucked drunk, give them some cocaine and ectasy, and then a hot girl convinces them to try it, and they have a (brief) lifetime customer.
http://www.nida.nih.gov/infofacts/heroin.html about 23% of users become dependent. Alcohol has 15% addiction rate, I believe.
Heroin (diacetylmorphine) is merely a cheap and potent painkiller, cheaper than other popular ones like oxycodone. It's used in UK to treat severe pain. It's not the strongest one out there (fentanyl is stronger), nor will it make you addicted instantly.
You will probably get addicted if you have easy access and some recurrent pain issues: psychological or physical. A lot of people start off with prescription pharma, and then as their prescription or money runs out, they are forced to use cheaper street alternatives like h.
Others just like to nod once in a while, and only a small part, I believe, makes heroin their ultimate priority enough, willing to kill their own grandmother for a fix. Unfortunately, those junkies are also the most vocal and noticeable ones.
I mean, heroin is not entirely safe and it's very pleasant and it can be addictive just because it's so fucking nice. But I think a lot of people use the idiotic societal stereotypes to justify their own lack of maturity to handle detox, and right now, with the plethora of unaddictive painkillers, rehab, methadone, suboxone, support groups, antidepressants detoxing is easier than ever.