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High IQ linked to drug use

thechart.blogs.cnn.com

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Re: High IQ linked to drug use

#41
post #7

FTA:It's not clear why people with high childhood IQs are more likely to use illegal drugs. "We suspect they may be more open to new experiences and are more sensation seeking," says White. The articles shy away from the elephant in the room which is that the UK and US gvts have a massive legal and propaganda effort to prevent drug use. Indeed the idea that only stupid people do drugs is part of this propaganda. So m…

"So maybe its because a higher IQ allows one to realize that the War on Drugs is fucking irrational bullshit and magical thinking and act accordingly (i.e. to choose for oneself)."

I think it has more to do with the fact that people with higher IQs don't feel like they are a part of regular society and it's a way to cope with it.

Many people that are depressed use illegal and legal drugs to make themselves feel better. I have a feeling there is also a higher level of depression in people with high IQs as well.

I would be interested to see if the same holds true with people that have lower than average IQs.

"The articles shy away from the elephant in the room which is that the UK and US gvts have a massive legal and propaganda effort to prevent drug use"

Illegal drugs aren't good or healthy for you. I feel like you will most likely spread propaganda in the opposite direction and it's just as bad.

Re: High IQ linked to drug use

#42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Indeed the idea that only stupid people do drugs is part of this propaganda." That's not propaganda. It's numbers. Doing drugs = high risk. And it's stupid to take high risks with your body, unless you don't mind dying young. I've never understood why many 'tech' people are so pro drugs. Why do you need it?

Doing certain drugs = high risk.

One thing leads to another. Why tempt fate? Addiction is a complex disease which no one has really figured out, why even put yourself in a position to ruin your life?

Re: High IQ linked to drug use

#43
post #18
post #7

FTA:It's not clear why people with high childhood IQs are more likely to use illegal drugs. "We suspect they may be more open to new experiences and are more sensation seeking," says White. The articles shy away from the elephant in the room which is that the UK and US gvts have a massive legal and propaganda effort to prevent drug use. Indeed the idea that only stupid people do drugs is part of this propaganda. So m…

How about High IQ = more stressful employment = more recreational drug use? I'd be interested in an addition of an "average alcohol consumption" variable to this dataset.

I'm going to speak from experience here. My IQ is in the range talked about in the article, I'm a few years from 30, and I do have a history of polydrug use/abuse. It seems intelligent people are also more likely to become depressed as well. My thoughts are that people like the ones described in the study as being more intelligent are more thoughtful, analytical, and sensitive. They need an outlet and drug use is a form of self medication.

I doubt is has as much to do with economics as some would argue. Some of the poorest people are addicts and they find a way. I myself have been out there on the streets with a negative bank balance yet somehow managed to find my fix through various forms of petty theft and manipulation. If I could produce $20 bills right now like I used to back then I'd be a rich man. Addicts find a way.

Of course I'm sure a majority of them were not addicts but casual users. I see some comments suggesting that a single use of drugs within the past year doesn't count somehow. It's as if to imply that drug use is far more common than it is. I agree that more people use drugs recreationally than we really know but I'd venture to guess that there are far more people completely abstinent from any type of drug use than there are those who use once a year or more. That kind of thinking comes from users themselves who are surrounded by other users (ranging from rare, casual use, to full blown addiction and abuse) and begin to think the rest of the world behaves as they do.

I'm on the board of the Heroin Epidemic Relief Organization (HERO) and the numbers we're seeing agree with this study. We're seeing a trend where students who are more intelligent (based on standardized tests, GPA, and, if available, IQ tests are using drugs more often than average students and below. We're talking about 6th through 12th grade kids. That study was done by the Robert Crown Center here in Chicago and I'm not sure if it's published yet but if it is it would be on their website.

Re: High IQ linked to drug use

#44
It’s kind of odd that the article doesn’t look at the social aspects. Different social groups have different patterns in and attitudes towards drug consumption. These patterns change over time. Note, research is based on findings from 1970. In 1970, drugs might still be tied to counterculture, and thus to people with on avarage higher education (and on avarage higher iq), while in 2011 drug use seems to appear in much more diverse layers of society…

Re: High IQ linked to drug use

#45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"IQ is also correlated with revenue (probably because that's what it actually measures: socio-economic class)" False. Charles Murray compared brothers of the same household of different intelligence levels, and found significant disparities in income. http://www.eugenics.net/papers/murray.html (article originally appeared in The Telegraph) It's more accurate to say socioeconomic class measures IQ, rather than the oth…

IQ is heritable, but the catch is that it may, in fact, only be heritable through the mother's half of the genes contributed to the child [1]. The jury is still out on this possibility, but it's being seriously considered in studies right now. So all those uber-rich guys who select stereotypically dumb, hot trophy wives are doing their offspring no favors in this department. (On the flipside, they may be doing their…

Could you link to some more info about this? I'm interested.

Re: High IQ linked to drug use

#46
post #7

FTA:It's not clear why people with high childhood IQs are more likely to use illegal drugs. "We suspect they may be more open to new experiences and are more sensation seeking," says White. The articles shy away from the elephant in the room which is that the UK and US gvts have a massive legal and propaganda effort to prevent drug use. Indeed the idea that only stupid people do drugs is part of this propaganda. So m…

"Indeed the idea that only stupid people do drugs is part of this propaganda." That's not propaganda. It's numbers. Doing drugs = high risk. And it's stupid to take high risks with your body, unless you don't mind dying young. I've never understood why many 'tech' people are so pro drugs. Why do you need it?

    "Why do you need it?"
No one needs it. I doubt anyone will argue they need it unless they're addicted to something that has produced withdrawl in which case they really do need it. But the problem with this kind of mentality is that it lumps all drugs in as "bad". This is part of the failure of our current prevention and education system. Telling the kids all drugs are bad leads to more use. They'll try some pot first, see nothing bad happened then figure they were told lies. Same with addictive drugs like heroin. Usually nothing goes wrong the first time (except overdose which is more rare for first timers than you'd think) so they think they've been lied to and then only later do they pay the price for their experimentation.

We need to educate people about drugs differently and the justice system needs to stop persecuting users and addicts as if they were burglars, rapists, and killers.

First, we need to put marijuana in the same class as alcohol and cigarettes. A little weed doesn't hurt anyone. Abuse of it does and that's what we need to teach. That marijuana abuse hurts you by taking you away from more important things in life. The drug itself can't really do too much damage. I'd equate it to alcohol use. A beer or two after work won't hurt you and getting drunk occasionally won't either. It's the consequences of abuse that hurt you, not the substance. There are plenty of completely functional successful people who drink beer regularly (not abusively or for escape) and the same goes for smoking a joint.

Then we need to get real with people and let them know what really happens when you use stimulants, opioids, etc. Let them know that the first time is dangerous but that the real negative effect isn't seen until later. Then educate people on the reasons why people use, help them spot the reasons in themselves, and explain the progression from curious one time use to full blown addiction. Lumping them all in as bad and evil is making this problem worse.

Then our justice system needs to provide treatment rather than punishment. The stigma attached to users is so unfair and hurts their chances for recovery. Once you take someone out of society and label them as "bad", "criminal", or "addict" they'll slip into that role and play the part.

I myself am a recovered heroin addict and on the board of the Heroin Epidemic Relief Organization. We're seeing huge progress by doing just what I described here. We're focusing on Will County, Illinois which is just outside of Chicago. We have politicians on board with us and we're doing a ton to change how drug users are treated and how drug education happens. Will County will likely become the model for the test of the country one day. We have a Drug Court program which gives those charged with certain felonies a chance to have their case dropped if they complete a minimum of one year in a treatment program that includes therapy, inpatient, outpatient rehab, then a halfway house and regular weekly, biweekly, and monhthly court appearances (as you move through the program and show progress) along with scheduled and random drug screenings. Participants are in the program for as long as they need to become sober (maximum 4 years I believe) and must attend school if they have no high school equivalency and must get a job which the court helps with. They also strongly encourage participants to attend college but not all do. Failure to complete the program means pleading guilty and being sentenced to the full term of whatever sentence you would have gotten had you not participated. (I do believe there might be a trial before that, I forgot).

We're also doing the education thing I mentioned too and it's working! Every county in Illinois is looking over at us to see how we're beating this thing. It's saving the government boatloads of money to make drug offenders productive citizens rather than letting them waste a prison cell and become burdens on the state.

I'm sorry to rant but whenever I hear someone generalizing drugs and drug users and repeat the misinformation the war on drugs has been letting loose I lose it. The point here is that not all drugs are created equal. Smoking pot should be a choice like smoking tobacco or drinking alcohol. And pretty much everything we were taught about drugs and their users is wrong.

Re: High IQ linked to drug use

#47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"IQ is also correlated with revenue (probably because that's what it actually measures: socio-economic class)" False. Charles Murray compared brothers of the same household of different intelligence levels, and found significant disparities in income. http://www.eugenics.net/papers/murray.html (article originally appeared in The Telegraph) It's more accurate to say socioeconomic class measures IQ, rather than the oth…

IQ is heritable, but the catch is that it may, in fact, only be heritable through the mother's half of the genes contributed to the child [1]. The jury is still out on this possibility, but it's being seriously considered in studies right now. So all those uber-rich guys who select stereotypically dumb, hot trophy wives are doing their offspring no favors in this department. (On the flipside, they may be doing their…

"IQ is heritable, but the catch is that it may, in fact, only be heritable through the mother's half of the genes contributed to the child [1]."

Do you have a source for this that isn't, um, from the Simpsons? Geneticists have an equation for estimating the response to selection, the change in IQ from parent to offspring, and it uses an average of both parents' IQ. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heritability#Response_to_Select... for the equation.

IQ is somewhat more malleable initially, but it seems to converge on a point set by one's genetics, by adulthood. The APA estimated heritability in childhood at .45 and .75 by adulthood.

Re: High IQ linked to drug use

#48
A new British study finds children with high IQs are more likely to use drugs as adults than people who score low on IQ tests as children.

I stopped here. The title should be "Drug use linked to High IQ". That's completely different.

Re: High IQ linked to drug use

#49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"IQ is also correlated with revenue (probably because that's what it actually measures: socio-economic class)" False. Charles Murray compared brothers of the same household of different intelligence levels, and found significant disparities in income. http://www.eugenics.net/papers/murray.html (article originally appeared in The Telegraph) It's more accurate to say socioeconomic class measures IQ, rather than the oth…

they ultimately don't believe IQ is highly heritable, which it is I don't think anybody sane questions that, but what people are saying and that studies so far have confirmed ... 1) small variations in IQ tests don't matter, like for example the difference between 120 and 140 being negligible and depends a lot on external factors, like rest, vitamins in your blood-stream and mood ... give a person several IQ tests ov…

A Scottish study found that IQ is stable, over a 66 year period. http://homepages.ed.ac.uk/ijdeary/papers/SMS32_98.pdf

Also, just because one can game the test, or make its result less accurate, it doesn't mean the population level data is much less accurate. I'm reminded of the Body Mass Index - men, by strength training, can put on lots of muscle mass and become classified as "overweight" or even (rarely) "obese" without being fat. But the fact is that most "overweight" men are in fact fat, and not muscular. The fact that a test for an individual can have reduced or zero validity, does not necessarily threaten the validity for the overall population.

If everyone were to start gaming the tests, things might be different. Then again, being able to game the test might be a highly IQ dependent task, so the IQ test remains an IQ test.

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