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Flurry of Calls Among Saudi Staff and Spy Coincided with 9/11 Hijackers’ Arrival

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Re: Flurry of Calls Among Saudi Staff and Spy Coincided with 9/11 Hijackers’ Arrival

#71

Post by RC_ITR »

hristov wrote: post #43
nobody9999 wrote: post #16

Not trying to be a negative Nancy here, but I did read (most) of TFA and was underwhelmed. That Saudi nationals were involved in the 9/11 attacks isn't news. That they had money and support (including from folks inside the US) isn't news. That multiple Federal and state law "enforcement" and intelligence agencies had information about the potential for these attacks isn't news. That those agencies didn't put all that…

It is not officially known that the Saudi government provided support to the hijackers through Embassy officials and known agents. The currently accepted story is that the Saudi government has always tried to protect the US, has never been in cahoots with Osama bin Laden (at least after he became a terrorist) or Al Queda, and is just kind of unfortunate to have some crazies live on its soil. If this is true, it is ac…

I think the huge missing piece in all this is that bin Landen is an heir to what is still one of SA’s largest companies.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saudi_Binladin_Group

Impossible to imply that had no hand in government officials’ willingness to help Osama (even if he was an “outcast”).

Re: Flurry of Calls Among Saudi Staff and Spy Coincided with 9/11 Hijackers’ Arrival

#72

Post by daniel-cussen »

dcow wrote: post #61
daniel-cussen wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This has already been ruled a conspiracy, the only theories are about who's in on it and who isn't. So I basically buy the South Park "9/11 Conspiracy conspiracy" where the government doesn't do very public attempts at discrediting its participation in these attacks because...like makes them look scary. Really it's the media not picking up that line. George Bush didn't even address it but denied it in the consequence…

I missing some literary device here? I have no clue what you just wrote…

It's a new literary device. Well many actually. No idea what to call them, just read my other comments and get the drift.

EDIT: yeah so it's a new form of logic, not a tree, a graph. So there's no hierarchy, it's more like Venetian Democracy: all the people elect twenty among the old to decide on which six children must vote for which ten young husbands to...it goes on, but it goes on for a while, and everyone in the city has say in who becomes the Venetian Duce.

Re: Flurry of Calls Among Saudi Staff and Spy Coincided with 9/11 Hijackers’ Arrival

#73

Post by [deleted] »

bglazer wrote: post #44
Victerius wrote: post #22

I'll drop references which might interest some of you if you are interested in learning more about the subject: Plan of Attack, by Bob Woodward Decision Points, by George W. Bush No Higher Honour, by Condoleezza Rice Known and Unknown, by Donald Rumsfeld At the Center of the Storm, by George Tenet In My Time, by Dick Cheney Yes, I know what you're thinking, but it's a good thing to be able to view a situation from an…

You might also be interested in “If I Did It” by OJ Simpson. But seriously, these are not good faith, honest accounts of what transpired. These are political actors doing politics; trying to burnish legacies that were tarnished by the blood of hundreds of thousands of Iraqis.

[deleted]

Re: Flurry of Calls Among Saudi Staff and Spy Coincided with 9/11 Hijackers’ Arrival

#74

Post by [deleted] »

WillPostForFood wrote: post #35
stevenwoo wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Based on the article, if everything is true (or beyond ordinary coincidence which it argues), what other explanation is possible?

People either have short memories, or were too young, but there was a legitimately bipartisan, independent commission that looked into this. Most of the info in this article is from that commission's investigation, with a few interesting new connections added. https://9-11commission.gov/report/ There was no coverup, it is just complicated. No doubt that there were elements in the Saudi govt that helped. That doesn't…

[deleted]

Re: Flurry of Calls Among Saudi Staff and Spy Coincided with 9/11 Hijackers’ Arrival

#75

Post by daniel-cussen »

nl wrote: post #60
daniel-cussen wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This has already been ruled a conspiracy, the only theories are about who's in on it and who isn't. So I basically buy the South Park "9/11 Conspiracy conspiracy" where the government doesn't do very public attempts at discrediting its participation in these attacks because...like makes them look scary. Really it's the media not picking up that line. George Bush didn't even address it but denied it in the consequence…

> In fact the biggest obstacle to an intercessor on a plane would be the other passengers interceding on behalf of Muhammed Ata, to basically protect the stewardess from his boxcutter from Muhammed Ata from the intercessor. Like the terrorist isn't crazy, he's just a terrorist, you're crazy because you're protecting us from annihilation. Apart from that, apart from the other passengers insisting I accept a stewardess…

> new and unexpected.

So on a South Tower flight, supposing I weren't a child at the time and were the man I am now, like you know the time of day, you know they're flying north, you know they're not turning the plane around to Cuba, which is what the itinerary looks like but like but it's not exactly it. And thirty minutes is an eternity for that.

So the key is flashing on the truth, so there's like a couple times in your life, or in History, where the problem is intractable. So for instance, for the 2008/2009 crash, there were government spokespersons saying "nobody on Earth could have seen this coming. Maybe from Mars they could." Well guess I'm a fucking Martian then, because if you do see it coming, you can short the market in the nick of time, high leverage...et cetera. If you can get it to the day, that's priceless. Somewhere in the trillions in value, pays out once per cycle.

But if you do it! Not if you almost do it, so close but no cigar, no, do it! Time the market! Fucking nail it! You just gotta be right!

And then nobody can fuck you with surprises. Not even the first time. Doesn't matter if it's new and unexpected. Spinal reaction.

Re: Flurry of Calls Among Saudi Staff and Spy Coincided with 9/11 Hijackers’ Arrival

#76

Post by bayesian_horse »

thematrixturtle wrote: post #68
bayesian_horse wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't remember a direct link being made between 9/11 and Saddam Hussein. There always was mumbling about Saddam supporting terrorism, and Iraq being part of generally the same problem. Not exactly a wrong supposition, though the conclusion was quite disastrous.

The GP's point is that 9/11 was turned into an excuse to invade Iraq, even though there was no actual connection.

My feeling (I'm not an American) is that America got attacked and partly lost its mind and partly just had to lash out at somebody in retaliation to keep up its deterrence as a superpower. That climate made the Iraq invasion look like a good idea at the time.

As far as I understood it, 9/11 was never stated as an excuse to invade Iraq (as opposed to Afghanistan). At best as a reason to take the region more seriously. The government was convinced Saddam Hussein had connections to terrorism, but that wasn't really the reason to knock him out, they thought he had weapons of mass destruction. And yes, the Bush administration really was convinced of that, they just lied about the degree of evidence they had.

Re: Flurry of Calls Among Saudi Staff and Spy Coincided with 9/11 Hijackers’ Arrival

#77

Post by toolz »

bayesian_horse wrote: post #65
toolz wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rumsfeld had openly started planning for attacks on Iraq within 5-6 hours of the pentagon being struck by flight 77.

As well he should. Iraq was one of the major suspects, especially that early. Having those plans, and preferably to never use them, is the very job of the defense department.

What are you talking about? There never was, nor has there ever been evidence that Hussein orchestrated 9/11 attacks and Rumsfeld mentions targeting him specifically even in light of only having evidence that bin Laden was involved.

Plane hits pentagon 9:37am

by 2:40pm Rumsfeld is quoted in notes

> "best info fast. Judge whether good enough hit S.H." – meaning Saddam Hussein – "at same time. Not only UBL" – the initials used to identify Osama bin Laden.

Re: Flurry of Calls Among Saudi Staff and Spy Coincided with 9/11 Hijackers’ Arrival

#78

Post by ncmncm »

justsomehnguy wrote: post #53
boomboomsubban wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There seems to be some disconnect with Yemen as we aren't doing the bombing, we're merely supplying the bombs and planning the bombing. It's not our fault that the Saudi's are dropping US bombs on US targets. This justification falls apart with the blockade though.

> There seems to be some disconnect with $somesuddenlyeuropeancountry as we aren't doing the bombing, we're merely supplying the bombs and planning the bombing. It's not our fault that the $somesuddenlyeuropeancountry's are dropping US bombs on US targets. LOL EDIT: and with M777 and HIMARS it's quite literal US bombs.

Yet, not genocide. Unless targeting invading Russian tanks and warships counts as trying to eliminate Russians in general.

Re: Flurry of Calls Among Saudi Staff and Spy Coincided with 9/11 Hijackers’ Arrival

#79

Post by streamlining »

itwasbush wrote: post #24
Geonode wrote: post #2

It's clear that the US government has no intention of stirring up trouble inside Saudi Arabia because they're the middle east country that likes money more than religion, and that makes them an important partner if not ally in taming the bat-shit crazy governments of other local countries, some of which we actually put in place. So you can see how dedicated we are to 9-11 justice when it's not a goat path wasteland o…

> It's clear that the US government has no intention of stirring up trouble inside Saudi Arabia because they're the middle east country that likes money more than religion, and that makes them an important partner if not ally in taming the bat-shit crazy governments of other local countries, some of which we actually put in place. The reason why the US doesn't go after them is because if they do, then it will bring t…

No post body was provided.

Re: Flurry of Calls Among Saudi Staff and Spy Coincided with 9/11 Hijackers’ Arrival

#80

Post by mysockpuppet_07 »

hristov wrote: post #43
nobody9999 wrote: post #16

Not trying to be a negative Nancy here, but I did read (most) of TFA and was underwhelmed. That Saudi nationals were involved in the 9/11 attacks isn't news. That they had money and support (including from folks inside the US) isn't news. That multiple Federal and state law "enforcement" and intelligence agencies had information about the potential for these attacks isn't news. That those agencies didn't put all that…

It is not officially known that the Saudi government provided support to the hijackers through Embassy officials and known agents. The currently accepted story is that the Saudi government has always tried to protect the US, has never been in cahoots with Osama bin Laden (at least after he became a terrorist) or Al Queda, and is just kind of unfortunate to have some crazies live on its soil. If this is true, it is ac…

It’s easy to forget that a central job of the Embassy was to support Saudis going to school and they had been providing this service formally and informally for many years and to many people -- the vast majority of whom went back to their community with an expanded outlook on life influenced by the tolerance and social freedoms of spending some formative years in the west. If the Embassy didn't know these guys were terrorists (due to the for-eyes-only information stovepipes which affected the FBI just as much) then they would treat them just the same as any Saudi in the USA -- on-board them into the US (advice on accommodation/where the mosques are/where they serve hallal food/introduce to other Arabs in the community/play cards/etc), then check up on their situation from time to time. And then try to hide the fact they had any contact at all after the passports turned up in the wreckage.

Not saying it’s impossible for any specific bad actor collusion by some individual(s)/institution(s) with overlapping goals - just that proof there was Embassy contact and some support for these terrorists is not conclusive evidence because the same could be said for several hundred thousand non-terrorists.

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