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Flurry of Calls Among Saudi Staff and Spy Coincided with 9/11 Hijackers’ Arrival

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Re: Flurry of Calls Among Saudi Staff and Spy Coincided with 9/11 Hijackers’ Arrival

#41
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah I think Afghanistan was just a place they could safely drop a lot of expensive bombs. Iraq, and later see Libya, Syria, and others, ongoing, are places where they don't want strong dictators who are against the international monetary monopoly. Just look at the shenanigans African dictators get up to and we just send trainers, because it's the only effective solution over time.

Everyone always forgets Yemen. Why does everyone forget Yemen? Is it because it's the Saudis again? Or is it because Obama did it? Or because Trump continued it? Or is it because Biden said he would end it but didn't? https://youtube.com/watch?v=hFkngrRDdaA Inflammatory comment I know. Tell that to the 100s of thousands being genocided.

>Why does everyone forget Yemen?

Most people have their worldview spoonfed to them by the media, who are almost universally not interested in the Yemen war.

Re: Flurry of Calls Among Saudi Staff and Spy Coincided with 9/11 Hijackers’ Arrival

#42

I'll drop references which might interest some of you if you are interested in learning more about the subject: Plan of Attack, by Bob Woodward Decision Points, by George W. Bush No Higher Honour, by Condoleezza Rice Known and Unknown, by Donald Rumsfeld At the Center of the Storm, by George Tenet In My Time, by Dick Cheney Yes, I know what you're thinking, but it's a good thing to be able to view a situation from an…

>but it's a good thing to be able to view a situation from another person's point of view

Why? I already lived through the Bush presidency, why do I need to read his BS justification for his crimes again?

Re: Flurry of Calls Among Saudi Staff and Spy Coincided with 9/11 Hijackers’ Arrival

#43

Not trying to be a negative Nancy here, but I did read (most) of TFA and was underwhelmed. That Saudi nationals were involved in the 9/11 attacks isn't news. That they had money and support (including from folks inside the US) isn't news. That multiple Federal and state law "enforcement" and intelligence agencies had information about the potential for these attacks isn't news. That those agencies didn't put all that…

It is not officially known that the Saudi government provided support to the hijackers through Embassy officials and known agents. The currently accepted story is that the Saudi government has always tried to protect the US, has never been in cahoots with Osama bin Laden (at least after he became a terrorist) or Al Queda, and is just kind of unfortunate to have some crazies live on its soil.

If this is true, it is actually a very big deal and would make a significant difference in Saudi US relations, in fact in the relations between Saudi Arabia and most free countries, and it would also allow for the victims of many terrorist attacks to actually sue the Saudi government.

Re: Flurry of Calls Among Saudi Staff and Spy Coincided with 9/11 Hijackers’ Arrival

#44

I'll drop references which might interest some of you if you are interested in learning more about the subject: Plan of Attack, by Bob Woodward Decision Points, by George W. Bush No Higher Honour, by Condoleezza Rice Known and Unknown, by Donald Rumsfeld At the Center of the Storm, by George Tenet In My Time, by Dick Cheney Yes, I know what you're thinking, but it's a good thing to be able to view a situation from an…

You might also be interested in “If I Did It” by OJ Simpson.

But seriously, these are not good faith, honest accounts of what transpired. These are political actors doing politics; trying to burnish legacies that were tarnished by the blood of hundreds of thousands of Iraqis.

Re: Flurry of Calls Among Saudi Staff and Spy Coincided with 9/11 Hijackers’ Arrival

#45

Not trying to be a negative Nancy here, but I did read (most) of TFA and was underwhelmed. That Saudi nationals were involved in the 9/11 attacks isn't news. That they had money and support (including from folks inside the US) isn't news. That multiple Federal and state law "enforcement" and intelligence agencies had information about the potential for these attacks isn't news. That those agencies didn't put all that…

This has already been ruled a conspiracy, the only theories are about who's in on it and who isn't.

So I basically buy the South Park "9/11 Conspiracy conspiracy" where the government doesn't do very public attempts at discrediting its participation in these attacks because...like makes them look scary. Really it's the media not picking up that line. George Bush didn't even address it but denied it in the consequence of his words and deeds, and in his autobiography in fact, where he says his achievement as president first and foremost was protecting America from a second major terrorist attack in the third millennium. And USG deny it, they always denied it, they will always deny it, and good that they denied it because it is impossible to admit to it since it's not true. And there's like government spokespersons which are ignored by the bitchvictim media. And the government openly discrediting and investigating (which is tricky, casting blame around within the government between agencies, fucking bad minefield) and they talk about it on eg the websites of embassies, but it never gets picked up by CNN.

Like they didn't have the Sherlock Holmes at the right place at the right time to stop these attacks. And in particular they have this immune response to hardcore conspiracy theorists, don't listen to them. Nobody sane sees bear markets coming. But the insane are accredited no worth in society. But like at all, societiy discards their worth early and forever. To me, a conspiracy theorist has worth if he is correct. Simple as that. Do you think there's a conspiracy? Better be right.

Julius Caesar should have been a conpiracy theorist.

Theories--meaning abductive logic--are the only way to piece together a conspiracy in the moment. And that's why it's so frowned upon by the bitchvictim media, because it works against them.

In fact the biggest obstacle to an intercessor on a plane would be the other passengers interceding on behalf of Muhammed Ata, to basically protect the stewardess from his boxcutter from Muhammed Ata from the intercessor. Like the terrorist isn't crazy, he's just a terrorist, you're crazy because you're protecting us from annihilation. Apart from that, apart from the other passengers insisting I accept a stewardess taken hostage, I could have totally stopped one of the two plane strikes had I been a passenger. Would have been called South Tower Attack.

So in fact I was converted into a conspiracy theorist by schoolmates, before the teacher arrived, everything was fine, a pat on the back then everybody started kicking me, and I couldn't figure out why, until a girl told me why. And I couldn't figure it out on my own, couldn't come up with conspiracy theories fast enough, because I wasn't a conspiracy theorist. And in fact the only way to figure out you have a "kick me" on your back is knowing about that specific abuse or coming up with the theory, simulating it, and comparing it to reality. Or being told by someone in the conspiracy. That happened a lot. So that "kick me" which the whole class saw, publicly displayed, was a confession of conspiracy. They told me when they conspired against me after conspiring, like half the time. Over time it seems like it wasn't half, less than that, less and less.

Can you argue with that? "Kick me"?

Re: Flurry of Calls Among Saudi Staff and Spy Coincided with 9/11 Hijackers’ Arrival

#46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Still, this is looking like a hell of a lot of leverage that a dem presidency has over a country with leadership that historically loves republicans in office. To think that no one, anywhere in government, (to say nothing of multiple parties in various positions) will make use of this leverage seems a bit strange and goes against the very implications of holding any power at all.

I think that's backwards. This is leverage over Biden. The release is timed to shame the administration for reversing their anti-Saudi policy, just as Biden goes over to make amends and ask for more oil to ease inflation.

Even if that's the case, such a release would be so easy to flip?

Just one example: "Look, we all see how 9/11 happened. You want your republican friends to love you again, we all know that. But now it's looking really bad..."

... = more oil concessions from SA that you don't even have to mention back in the US. You could even dump on SA in the press with that leverage.

Re: Flurry of Calls Among Saudi Staff and Spy Coincided with 9/11 Hijackers’ Arrival

#47
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone always forgets Yemen. Why does everyone forget Yemen? Is it because it's the Saudis again? Or is it because Obama did it? Or because Trump continued it? Or is it because Biden said he would end it but didn't? https://youtube.com/watch?v=hFkngrRDdaA Inflammatory comment I know. Tell that to the 100s of thousands being genocided.

Everyone ignores Yemen for the same reason they ignore Syria: It's bad guys attacking bad guys. Edit: I appear to be wrong about this: America would not support either side in those wars, so they just leave them alone to fight.

This is false and a false equivalence. It's like saying that we shouldn't care about ukraine since they have azov actively fighting on the frontline, so both sides are just bad.

There's mostly one side that's doing the "bombing civilians" and "invade your weaker neighbor " part. And it's not like America is neutral here. They are actively supporting the saudi/anti houthi coalition, with intel and weaponry.

It's fine to say that you just don't really care because we can't care about everything, which is true, but there's no need to rationalize that choice.

Re: Flurry of Calls Among Saudi Staff and Spy Coincided with 9/11 Hijackers’ Arrival

#48
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Still, this is looking like a hell of a lot of leverage that a dem presidency has over a country with leadership that historically loves republicans in office. To think that no one, anywhere in government, (to say nothing of multiple parties in various positions) will make use of this leverage seems a bit strange and goes against the very implications of holding any power at all.

What leverage exactly? Consider a major split between SA and US. Who do you think would come out worse off?

I don't understand the questions. You can't see how knowing of a SA conspiracy against the US is leverage?

Edit: Things you could do:

- Increase cultural pressure within US SA community

- Increase cultural pressure within US arab community

- Tell SA you are wondering what Israel thinks about this

- Incentivize new cultural narratives (film, books, etc) and redirect special funding to think tanks

- Create a long-term partnership coalition

- Behind the scenes: Find new weak spots in SA

- Behind the scenes: Exploit new weak spots in SA, foment a renewed arab spring, etc.

These are just the tip of the iceberg, there must be thousands more.

The bad things that would happen as a result:

- Reduced SA govt access to power

- Reduced SA govt access to needed resources

- Reduced SA govt image

- Increasing trouble literally anywhere in or with SA.

Re: Flurry of Calls Among Saudi Staff and Spy Coincided with 9/11 Hijackers’ Arrival

#49
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone always forgets Yemen. Why does everyone forget Yemen? Is it because it's the Saudis again? Or is it because Obama did it? Or because Trump continued it? Or is it because Biden said he would end it but didn't? https://youtube.com/watch?v=hFkngrRDdaA Inflammatory comment I know. Tell that to the 100s of thousands being genocided.

Everyone ignores Yemen for the same reason they ignore Syria: It's bad guys attacking bad guys. Edit: I appear to be wrong about this: America would not support either side in those wars, so they just leave them alone to fight.

Really?? I thought US is supplying most of the weapons and logistics for Saudi Arabia to fight in Yemen while Russia is supporting Iran which supports the Houthis. In the end, both sides are bombing the hell out of that country which has no recourse.

Re: Flurry of Calls Among Saudi Staff and Spy Coincided with 9/11 Hijackers’ Arrival

#50
post #43

Not trying to be a negative Nancy here, but I did read (most) of TFA and was underwhelmed. That Saudi nationals were involved in the 9/11 attacks isn't news. That they had money and support (including from folks inside the US) isn't news. That multiple Federal and state law "enforcement" and intelligence agencies had information about the potential for these attacks isn't news. That those agencies didn't put all that…

It is not officially known that the Saudi government provided support to the hijackers through Embassy officials and known agents. The currently accepted story is that the Saudi government has always tried to protect the US, has never been in cahoots with Osama bin Laden (at least after he became a terrorist) or Al Queda, and is just kind of unfortunate to have some crazies live on its soil. If this is true, it is ac…

It's not a smoking gun to say that some people at the Saudi embassy helped Saudi nationals settle in the US, even if 18 months later those Saudi nationals went on to commit terrorist acts.

For example:

> Bayoumi’s final call to al-Sudairy at the Saudi embassy came on February 7, 2000, after the hijackers were fully settled in the same apartment complex where Bayoumi lived.

It'd be interesting to know how many other non-terrorist people went through a simialr process.

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