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Association between ADHD medication and depression: A 10-year follow-up

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

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Re: Association between ADHD medication and depression: A 10-year follow-up

#71

Post by kayodelycaon »

jimmygrapes wrote: post #16
sascha_sl wrote: post #5

Considering stimulants (generally, but also specific ones) only work for a portion of people that try it, I find this very unsurprising. The increase isn't that big and probably down to a mixture of disappointment and side effects without the main effects. It's one of the main reasons doctors prescribe different stimulants. I've personally heard every mutation of "This one worked for me but the other one gave me bad…

You'd think by now we would have some way to test the concentration of various things (serotonin, norepinephrine, etc.) in the body BEFORE issuing medications that might modify them, and then measure such concentrations afterwards to get a better idea of what to use, rather than the current "try different things and rely solely on the subjective description provided by the (likely untrained and inarticulate) test sub…

The problem is neurotransmitters are signaling devices, there are no "levels". There are only differences in reactivity to signals that differ all over the brain.

It would be like trying to tracks cars by only observing traffic lights.

Re: Association between ADHD medication and depression: A 10-year follow-up

#72

Post by MaxDPS »

greatpostman wrote: post #33

In case people don’t know yet, doctors in some sense have an imperative to prescribe medication, regardless of whether it will destroy someone’s life. It’s almost considered mal practice not to prescribe SSRIs to a depressed person. But that prescription may follow them for life, most never get off them. Or don’t even know who they are when they get older, was that drugged person them or someone else?

> More than 60% of Americans taking antidepressant medication have taken it for 2 years or longer, with 14% having taken the medication for 10 years or more.

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/products/databriefs/db76.htm

It seems like most people do stop using them with time.

Re: Association between ADHD medication and depression: A 10-year follow-up

#73

Post by aeneasmackenzie »

ALittleLight wrote: post #3

Quoted post unavailable.

> After his [Erdos] mother's death in 1971 he started taking antidepressants and amphetamines, despite the concern of his friends, one of whom (Ron Graham) bet him $500 that he could not stop taking them for a month. Erdős won the bet, but complained that it impacted his performance: "You've showed me I'm not an addict. But I didn't get any work done. I'd get up in the morning and stare at a blank piece of paper. I'd have no ideas, just like an ordinary person. You've set mathematics back a month."

How could we give these to children indeed.

Of course this article is about Ritalin which is not comparable.

Re: Association between ADHD medication and depression: A 10-year follow-up

#74

Post by sha256sum »

citilife wrote: post #17
pflats wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The study also does not claim to show a causal relationship.

I was actually going to point that out. IMO from what I've seen of parents are that people who bring their children at a young-ish age to a therapist have a different issue. Especially "being to hyper" or "being unable to focus" have a different issue. Children are supposed to be outside moving 8-12 hours a day, have you seen puppies? They need something similar. Instead many parents give their children tablets, plop…

> IMO from what I've seen of parents are that people who bring their children at a young-ish age to a therapist have a different issue.

I see this with someone close to me.

Diagnosed with ADHD as a child, medicated, later diagnosed with depression.

The real issue, however, was probably more related to brain development/executive function because their mother smoked a pack of cigarettes a day through pregnancy.

You've struck a nerve with some commenters, but personally I think you're on to something.

Re: Association between ADHD medication and depression: A 10-year follow-up

#75

Post by Djvacto »

citilife wrote: post #42
greesil wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"People who are diagnosed with ADHD at a younger age likely have parents who just don't want / know how to deal with issues." Once you have a child with ADHD, or if you are someone with ADHD, you will understand just how wrong you are. Until then, enjoy your bliss.

I formed this opinion from knowing many and seeing the way they are being / were raised. There's quite a bit of evidence to support this btw (outside of my observations). https://link.springer.com/article/10.1186/1471-2431-12-50 > Approximately 10% of the sample was classified as having ADHD. We found depression, anxiety, healthcare coverage, and male sex of child to have increased odds of being diagnosed with ADHD.…

> Youth with ADD/ADHD engaged in screen time with an average of 149.1 min/weekday and 59% had a TV in their bedroom. Adjusting for child and family characteristics, having a TV in the bedroom was associated with 25 minute higher daily screen time (95% CI: 12.8–37.4 min/day). A bedroom TV was associated with 32% higher odds of engaging in screen time for over 2 h/day (OR = 1.3; 95% CI: 1.0–1.7).

This does not imply causation. Someone with ADHD is more likely to give in to distraction and dopamine. This study was done with a sample of people who already have ADHD. Nothing in it indicates that television time is going to cause ADHD.

Someone who has a better relationship with exercise, screens, or whatever, doesn't mean they don't have ADHD anymore. Medicated or not. They just have better support and lifestyle habits that minimize how much it might impact them.

Re: Association between ADHD medication and depression: A 10-year follow-up

#76

Post by Avamander »

Verdex wrote: post #23
ALittleLight wrote: post #3

Quoted post unavailable.

The brain chemistry altering controlled substances aren't necessarily the problem in my eyes. It's the lack of focus and individuality. School is a system that's supposed to help set people up for life as fellow citizens. If solution A doesn't work then one would hope that they would have the bandwidth to try solution B. It does feel like there's a lot of "hey that's weird, this one person isn't like everyone else, m…

> It does feel like there's a lot of "hey that's weird, this one person isn't like everyone else, maybe we should try pumping some drugs into them" going on.

But it isn't like that.

Just as a thought excercise imagine you're talking about glasses, that's how damaging and silly such arguments are.

Things like bad eyesight or executive dysfunction don't start and end on school grounds, they're just more visible and more obstructive there.

Re: Association between ADHD medication and depression: A 10-year follow-up

#77

Post by falcolas »

IntrepidWorm wrote: post #69
falcolas wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Back when I was diagnosed with Bi-Polar disorder (I actually had ADHD and a touch of autism, but whatever), they put me on Lithium. I'd rather be on a small methamphetamine dose than Lithium if I got to choose my misdiagnosis.

Can you clarify the aversion to lithium? I was under the impression from multiple friends and family on it that out of many of the other drug cocktails prescribed to manage bipolar disorder, lithium was one of the tamer and more effective medications.

It's an effective mood regulator, because it's a mood dampener. You lose the lows, but you also lose the highs. Evanescence has a song about its effects, and they're much more eloquent about it than I could ever be.

Especially as someone who wasn't bi-polar - it was creepy af... kind of like disassociation. It wasn't me.

Re: Association between ADHD medication and depression: A 10-year follow-up

#78

Post by avgDev »

oliveshell wrote: post #64
avgDev wrote: post #20

I hate sounding like an alarmist....but something is extremely wrong with how physicians handle adverse reactions. So, I took a flouroquinolone and had a text book reaction. 50+ physicians later at mayo and other top US hospitals and I was gaslighted more than helped in any way. I am now in a group for sufferers and meet new people daily, who took the drug and the doctor completely dismissed their neurological issues…

The quinolone antibiotics in general seem to be a really nasty class of drug, with a long list of rare but serious and potentially permanent side effects in susceptible people: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quinolone_antibiotic#Adverse_e... https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-018-03267-5

There is quite a few theories now, such as mitochondrial issues(mayo clinic is doing a study on this). It is actually a Topoisomerase II inhibitor, like some anticancer drugs, but how that all works is a bit above my pay grade and I don't want to mislead anyone about what that could imply.

Edit: I think the reactions are rare but not as rare as we think. The onset of symptoms is anywhere from few hours after a single dose up to 12 months(this is now on the label). If I did not have an instant reaction I don't think I would have believed that a medication I took 6 months ago caused it. I have talked to many individual suffering from SFN, CFS, Fibro, chronic tendonitis issues who had an infection prior and took the drug. The physician never asked and they never made the connection.

Few individuals recovered, only to take the drug again few years later and end up in a worse state.

Re: Association between ADHD medication and depression: A 10-year follow-up

#79

Post by [deleted] »

avgDev wrote: post #20

I hate sounding like an alarmist....but something is extremely wrong with how physicians handle adverse reactions. So, I took a flouroquinolone and had a text book reaction. 50+ physicians later at mayo and other top US hospitals and I was gaslighted more than helped in any way. I am now in a group for sufferers and meet new people daily, who took the drug and the doctor completely dismissed their neurological issues…

[deleted]

Re: Association between ADHD medication and depression: A 10-year follow-up

#80

Post by BoorishBears »

robonerd wrote: post #45
falcolas wrote: post #19

FWIW, ADHD increases the risk of depression too. Executive Function Disorder creates a lot of internal thoughts of "I'm a loser" "I'll never be able to succeed", and so forth. Though, being fair, those are thoughts other people will direct at those with ADHD as well.

> "I'll never be able to succeed" Is it the condition which causes this, or the diagnosis of the condition? I think diagnoses can easily inspire feelings of futility. It's no longer something you can change about yourself by wanting to change, it becomes a medical condition you've been stuck with.

A lot of people who get diagnosed are diagnosed without anything near a full understanding of what it is, especially when diagnosed at a young age, so I don't buy this hypothesis.

As I kid I didn't have any inkling of what aspects of my personality and/or abilities were related to ADHD, and most people I've met who were diagnosed young have been in the same bucket.

If anything being diagnosed should help stave off depression since ADHD tends to mimic a mentality most people just refer to as "lazy". You don't have "executive function disorder", you just fixate on things you like and ignore stuff you don't. You don't have ADHD, you're just messy and disorganized.

Futility comes with a lack of understanding when it comes to this disease.

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