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Apple and Google’s mobile browser ‘stranglehold’ may face UK investigation

theguardian.com

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Re: Apple and Google’s mobile browser ‘stranglehold’ may face UK investigation

#71

Post by agust »

tempodox wrote: post #66
agust wrote: post #57

To clarify what this is about regarding Apple: After a year long market study, the CMA has concluded that Apple's browser engine ban on iOS in anti-competitive and distort the browser market, as well as limit the capabilities of web apps on iOS and on the entire mobile eco-system. They note that it is obviously to their own benefit, as a weaker web on iOS results in a stronger exclusive and captive native app eco-sys…

I would hope that this ends with Apple being pressured to make changes. Whether Apple will comply in a way that meets the spirit of the requirement is an entirely different question. I can see them allowing other engines, hamstringing them or otherwise adding friction, and blaming it on “security” reasons.

It is indeed a risk. A risk that the CMA is well aware of though, and among the remedies considered are also present:

- "mandating access to certain functionality for browsers (including supporting web apps)"; - "requiring Apple and Google to provide equal access to functionality through APIs for rival browsers".

All this remedies combined should, in theory at least, prevent Apple from obstructing other browsers.

Re: Apple and Google’s mobile browser ‘stranglehold’ may face UK investigation

#72

Post by agust »

MCArth wrote: post #63
agust wrote: post #57

To clarify what this is about regarding Apple: After a year long market study, the CMA has concluded that Apple's browser engine ban on iOS in anti-competitive and distort the browser market, as well as limit the capabilities of web apps on iOS and on the entire mobile eco-system. They note that it is obviously to their own benefit, as a weaker web on iOS results in a stronger exclusive and captive native app eco-sys…

Music to my ears - from my own experience, safari is a pain to deal with. I've run into many bugs that haven't been fixed for years, and they've lagged behind in implementing standards like WebGL 2. Hopefully this will force them to invest more resources into safari and webkit

It's actually already happening. Since the CMA started investigating around October last year, Apple has issued more than 70 job listings for WebKit, at least half of which have already been filled.

They also have significantly increased their release cycles, and released a number of bug fixes and new features. They still have a long way to go to fix the huge number of bugs WebKit's been rigged with for years, and to catch up with other engines in terms of functionality, but it's encouraging.

It seems like Apple acknowledged regulation is coming and they can't stop it.

Re: Apple and Google’s mobile browser ‘stranglehold’ may face UK investigation

#73

Post by tradevapp »

isodev wrote: post #67
neximo64 wrote: post #25

It's interesting to hear Apple always talk about the level playing field they've tried to create. From within the company i think they really believe they've got a level playing field. But then Apple has apps that can do much more than everyone else has access to, in ways that have nothing to do with security or privacy. - Apps access to NFC (e.g Apple Pay vs you being able to make your own nfc card) - Inability to h…

> Inability to have non WKWebView type browsers. Safari can do the one it wants, which is Apples choice. This is primarily for privacy and security reasons. One wouldn't want a funny casino app, or the likes of Google or Facebook to hijack people's web access. Another aspect is the user experience - a piece of web content will render exactly the same way anywhere on the system. There is no need for people to be conce…

I work for a product agency, and the ability to rely on Safari has unlocked many possibilities for us. It's significantly easier to create a unique and beautiful experience (web or native) for iOS than it is for Android. This is further facilitated by the consistency and performance of the iPhone platform itself.

Re: Apple and Google’s mobile browser ‘stranglehold’ may face UK investigation

#74

Post by closedloop129 »

agust wrote: post #57

To clarify what this is about regarding Apple: After a year long market study, the CMA has concluded that Apple's browser engine ban on iOS in anti-competitive and distort the browser market, as well as limit the capabilities of web apps on iOS and on the entire mobile eco-system. They note that it is obviously to their own benefit, as a weaker web on iOS results in a stronger exclusive and captive native app eco-sys…

>that Apple's browser engine ban on iOS in anti-competitive and distort the browser market

Isn't this a good thing? Without this distortion, what is preventing the web from becoming fully dependent on the Chrome engine?

Re: Apple and Google’s mobile browser ‘stranglehold’ may face UK investigation

#75

Post by agust »

the_other wrote: post #65
agust wrote: post #57

To clarify what this is about regarding Apple: After a year long market study, the CMA has concluded that Apple's browser engine ban on iOS in anti-competitive and distort the browser market, as well as limit the capabilities of web apps on iOS and on the entire mobile eco-system. They note that it is obviously to their own benefit, as a weaker web on iOS results in a stronger exclusive and captive native app eco-sys…

IMO, at this point, Apple’s resistance to allowing other browser engines is the only viable resistance to a Blink/Chromium monopoly.

It's highly unlikely that opening up iOS to competing browser engines will result in Chrome taking over. It has always been that way on macOS, and yet Safari is dominant there with around 60% market share.

What is much more likely is that Apple will start investing properly in WebKit to be able to compete with Blink and Gecko. It's in fact already happening.

Re: Apple and Google’s mobile browser ‘stranglehold’ may face UK investigation

#76

Post by ajvs »

the_other wrote: post #65
agust wrote: post #57

To clarify what this is about regarding Apple: After a year long market study, the CMA has concluded that Apple's browser engine ban on iOS in anti-competitive and distort the browser market, as well as limit the capabilities of web apps on iOS and on the entire mobile eco-system. They note that it is obviously to their own benefit, as a weaker web on iOS results in a stronger exclusive and captive native app eco-sys…

IMO, at this point, Apple’s resistance to allowing other browser engines is the only viable resistance to a Blink/Chromium monopoly.

Not really since CMA also took aim at Google Chrome's dominance. If that is made no longer the default browser then it'd go a long way to increasing browser diversity. I can only hope Gecko (Firefox) grows in the wake of that.

Re: Apple and Google’s mobile browser ‘stranglehold’ may face UK investigation

#77

Post by agust »

closedloop129 wrote: post #74
agust wrote: post #57

To clarify what this is about regarding Apple: After a year long market study, the CMA has concluded that Apple's browser engine ban on iOS in anti-competitive and distort the browser market, as well as limit the capabilities of web apps on iOS and on the entire mobile eco-system. They note that it is obviously to their own benefit, as a weaker web on iOS results in a stronger exclusive and captive native app eco-sys…

>that Apple's browser engine ban on iOS in anti-competitive and distort the browser market Isn't this a good thing? Without this distortion, what is preventing the web from becoming fully dependent on the Chrome engine?

Competition from Apple? Why would people use Chrome if Safari is as good or better?

Re: Apple and Google’s mobile browser ‘stranglehold’ may face UK investigation

#78

Post by tempodox »

Gigachad wrote: post #28
Aardwolf wrote: post #13

On Android I can install Firefox, Edge, other versions of these browsers from f-droid, and many other browsers, all with their own engines. On iPhones, afaik, you can only get Safari, or other browsers that are just a thin wrapper around Safari. That is a huge difference and I hope they know that.

Ironically, safari mostly only exists because of this restriction. If iOS allowed real browsers, only chrome would have users.

I wouldn't be so sure. There are still people who don't want their browser to phone home every bit of data it can get its paws on.

Re: Apple and Google’s mobile browser ‘stranglehold’ may face UK investigation

#79

Post by ajvs »

throwaway4good wrote: post #17

For the foreseeable future the only companies that may foster alternatives to the Apple / Google duopoly are Chinese ones. And there is absolutely no way they will be allowed to gain foldhold in the west.

Not really. Firefox and Brave are two great alternatives that suffer due to not being the default browser on most systems, unlike the current duopoly.

Re: Apple and Google’s mobile browser ‘stranglehold’ may face UK investigation

#80

Post by TekMol »

chupchap wrote: post #35
TekMol wrote: post #33

Is there a mobile browser for iOS that supports uBlock Origin? On my Laptop, I get no YouTube ads. It seems uBlock Origin removes them. On my iPad, I get YouTube ads in an unbearable frequency. It seems there is no solution for this? How is the situation on Android?

> It seems there is no solution for this? Get YouTube Premium?

I would pay for many things on the internet if there was something like digital cash.

But the way it is, every time I pay for something, the mega corporations can tie my identity to everything I do. I am not ok with that. So the barrier to pay for something is very high.

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