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Stage win: FinFisher is bankrupt

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Re: Stage win: FinFisher is bankrupt

#71

Post by lavela »

kristiandupont wrote: post #64
tom899 wrote: post #37

They will continue under a new name and description. The success to this day is not remarkable. That software has not stopped criminals like Olaf Scholz and his buddies, nor has it protect a mayor of a city that was killed in his own house. So, its useless and unethical to think to automate prosecution. Too many false-positives and a bad success rate is not and can not be the goal to break basic rights. The real crim…

>criminals like Olaf Scholz and his buddies Seriously?

It is suspected that he is involved with the Cum-Ex scandal, but to what extent remains unknown. He made very questionable (non-)statements in that regard though.

Re: Stage win: FinFisher is bankrupt

#74

Post by jacquesm »

bjarneh wrote: post #67
jacquesm wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Big difference between board members and stockholders. Board members are liable to some extent stockholders almost never are, unless the business was specifically founded to facilitate crime. That's where the term Ultimate Beneficiary comes into play.

> Big difference between board members and stockholders. Completely agree, but in small/medium size companies (no public stock etc), these are often the same people. In many cases it's completely obvious who (which humans) that have done something wrong, but since we still accept that the legal entity under which they operated no longer exists; you're stuck. A problem where I live (Norway) has been that people regist…

In such cases, where it is totally clear that the people in charge of that business acted in bad faith I'm all for going after them in person. A good building company either insures against such risks or they create a warranty fund. An even worse example would be a builder going bankrupt during the building. This is one of the reasons I've never bought a new house, it either exists and you can sell it to me or you can try to sell it to someone else first but I'm not going to assume that kind of risk.

Re: Stage win: FinFisher is bankrupt

#75

Post by _kbh_ »

someotherperson wrote: post #35
pelasaco wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well looks like it play a role in the defense strategy from the Ukraine https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/23/us/politics/pegasus-israe... So maybe until now we didn't see a country with cyber in their strategy being invaded by another?

Ukraine hasn't acquired NSO Group's software (based on your article) and ultimately it's a seriously corrupt country -- the most corrupt in Europe -- and globally ranks below El Salvador, Brazil, Turkey and even Cuba. Just because it's currently facing an invasion doesn't mean the malware won't be used for nefarious purposes: i.e Ukrainian elites targeting other Ukrainians or the sitting Ukrainian government targetin…

Ukraines military has changed drastically since the war that started in 2014. They have made many changes, moving away from the old Soviet style system and to a more western system for the military along with upping military pay and training. I also don't think that Ukraines military is overly 'ill-equipped' but its more that its fighting an army much bigger then itself, and one so incompetent that its going through ATGM's and MANPAD's so fast that its literally impossible to keep up.

Re: Stage win: FinFisher is bankrupt

#76

Post by ThePhysicist »

Probably a simple "flip". Companies in Germany do that often when they want to move overseas. The reason is that the Finanzamt (IRS) will tax any assets you move abroad. That can be a large problem for companies that e.g. get US funding. I know of a case where a financially successful German startup got funded by YC and needed to reincorporate in the US. If they had done it via the official route the Finanzamt would have used the YC valuation as a basis for calculating the taxes and the company would've needed to pay a seven-figure amount. They circumvented this by bankrupting the company and buying out the assets instead, which was then tax-free. I strongly suspect this is a similar move by FinFisher.

Re: Stage win: FinFisher is bankrupt

#77

Post by spupe »

coriny wrote: post #62
spupe wrote: post #56

I didn't know about this company before, but a cursory search suggests they were only based in Germany, not used by the German government. Title is misleading, especially as it is not the original title of the article, and Germany has in fact prosecuted them. That said, good riddance. We desperately need accountability for malware coming from state actors.

You might have missed this statement in the article: > German authorities were of course also customers of the company Though I don't think that's what the title was implying, I think it means German "nationality" rather than German "state-owned".

You are right about this claim, but the only thing I could find to substantiate it is a 2013 article in which leaked documents suggests German federal police wanted to use it [1]. It is still incorrect to suggest this is a German state spyware, although of course you are right about the ambiguity here.

[1] https://netzpolitik.org/2013/secret-government-document-reve...

Re: Stage win: FinFisher is bankrupt

#78

Post by ChuckNorris89 »

OtomotO wrote: post #50
ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>they gather everyday in the parlaments with their shady double income, their wrongdoings and promises broken every day You can add Ursula v.d.L. to that list. I lost faith in all EU governments to do anything for the people.

Ultimate power corrupts ultimately... okay, there are always exceptions to that rule, like e.g. Emperor Marcus Aurelius

Anyone remember when democracy actually meant that the representatives of the people were chosen among the ordinary people themselves? While now we elect members of the elite to act as our representatives and we're shocked when we find out they actually represent the elite, instead of us, and are entangled in very complex and shady forms of corruption, bribery, tax evasion, insider trading and cronyism?

Who could have expected that? /s It's like sheep electing flock leaders among a pack of wolves. When will we stop doing that?

Re: Stage win: FinFisher is bankrupt

#79

Post by juanani »

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #78
OtomotO wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ultimate power corrupts ultimately... okay, there are always exceptions to that rule, like e.g. Emperor Marcus Aurelius

Anyone remember when democracy actually meant that the representatives of the people were chosen among the ordinary people themselves? While now we elect members of the elite to act as our representatives and we're shocked when we find out they actually represent the elite, instead of us, and are entangled in very complex and shady forms of corruption, bribery, tax evasion, insider trading and cronyism? Who could hav…

No post body was provided.

Re: Stage win: FinFisher is bankrupt

#80

Post by bjarneh »

jacquesm wrote: post #74
bjarneh wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Big difference between board members and stockholders. Completely agree, but in small/medium size companies (no public stock etc), these are often the same people. In many cases it's completely obvious who (which humans) that have done something wrong, but since we still accept that the legal entity under which they operated no longer exists; you're stuck. A problem where I live (Norway) has been that people regist…

In such cases, where it is totally clear that the people in charge of that business acted in bad faith I'm all for going after them in person. A good building company either insures against such risks or they create a warranty fund. An even worse example would be a builder going bankrupt during the building. This is one of the reasons I've never bought a new house, it either exists and you can sell it to me or you ca…

> acted in bad faith I'm all for going after them in person

I agree, but this should be standard procedure. Hiding behind these peculiar "legal entities" that cannot possibly be held accountable anyway, makes no sense.

> This is one of the reasons I've never bought a new house

Same here, although the house I did buy was 160 years old; which also comes with its own set of problems :-)

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