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Stage win: FinFisher is bankrupt

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Re: Stage win: FinFisher is bankrupt

#41

Post by ChuckNorris89 »

tom899 wrote: post #37

They will continue under a new name and description. The success to this day is not remarkable. That software has not stopped criminals like Olaf Scholz and his buddies, nor has it protect a mayor of a city that was killed in his own house. So, its useless and unethical to think to automate prosecution. Too many false-positives and a bad success rate is not and can not be the goal to break basic rights. The real crim…

>they gather everyday in the parlaments with their shady double income, their wrongdoings and promises broken every day

You can add Ursula v.d.L. to that list.

I lost faith in all EU governments to do anything for the people.

Re: Stage win: FinFisher is bankrupt

#42

Post by nikanj »

bjarneh wrote: post #25
sva_ wrote: post #3

It appears like they're just going through a "rebranding" https://mobile.twitter.com/Pingu/status/1469314222349852675 Quote from the OP article: > the public prosecutor's office wanted to secure the assets potentially obtained from an unlawful act by means of an asset freeze in order to be able to confiscate them if necessary. The group of companies escaped seizure through insolvency So you know what's going on.

> companies escaped seizure through insolvency This is a strange arrangement that I guess most countries follow. Companies are legal entities, that can be sued and so on. But a company cannot go to jail (board members or stock owners don't typically go to jail either). These legal entities can also seize to exist (like in this example), and then there is nobody left to be held accountable... It seems like most countr…

Most countries also stop criminal & civil proceedings if the human in question ceases to exist

Re: Stage win: FinFisher is bankrupt

#43

Post by zeepzeep »

someotherperson wrote: post #17
zeepzeep wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Malware isn't bad, like guns, it depends on the one using it. There are legit uses, e.g. governments or simulations of real attacks.

Do we actually have any cases of governments using malware for good? Guns aren't a great comparison because the use can (and usually is) wholly defensive or acts as a deterrent -- i.e if you are known to be armed then you'd be left alone. Malware on the other hand is almost exclusively offensive and governments around the world almost exclusively use it for nefarious reasons (i.e NSO Group's clientele and published u…

> governments around the world almost exclusively use it for nefarious reasons

Oh sure, I agree. But that's bad governments not bad lines of code.

Re: Stage win: FinFisher is bankrupt

#44

Post by freeflight »

hnbad wrote: post #6
spacemanmatt wrote: post #4

why do we even tolerate malware companies

Because this company was the developer of the "Staatstrojaner" malware government agencies used to hack into computer systems to investigate crimes. I think the original use case was just terrorism but I'm pretty sure it's been used against other crimes as well. As to why the German public tolerate it: because there wasn't sufficient pushback and the government doesn't care about a few protests as most people will ev…

> I think the original use case was just terrorism but I'm pretty sure it's been used against other crimes as well.

This kind of stuff is always justified with "terrorism, pedophilia and organized crime", but once its in place it's usually overwhelmingly applied to much pettier crimes.

Re: Stage win: FinFisher is bankrupt

#45

Post by freeflight »

zeepzeep wrote: post #43
someotherperson wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do we actually have any cases of governments using malware for good? Guns aren't a great comparison because the use can (and usually is) wholly defensive or acts as a deterrent -- i.e if you are known to be armed then you'd be left alone. Malware on the other hand is almost exclusively offensive and governments around the world almost exclusively use it for nefarious reasons (i.e NSO Group's clientele and published u…

> governments around the world almost exclusively use it for nefarious reasons Oh sure, I agree. But that's bad governments not bad lines of code.

So we need good governments, with their own malware, to fight the bad ones? Is that where this logic is going?

Re: Stage win: FinFisher is bankrupt

#46

Post by psychoslave »

someotherperson wrote: post #17
zeepzeep wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Malware isn't bad, like guns, it depends on the one using it. There are legit uses, e.g. governments or simulations of real attacks.

Do we actually have any cases of governments using malware for good? Guns aren't a great comparison because the use can (and usually is) wholly defensive or acts as a deterrent -- i.e if you are known to be armed then you'd be left alone. Malware on the other hand is almost exclusively offensive and governments around the world almost exclusively use it for nefarious reasons (i.e NSO Group's clientele and published u…

Also, when you use a gun against someone, be it to threat or injure, you can’t do it without making the person aware that you used this weapon against them.

Re: Stage win: FinFisher is bankrupt

#47

Post by jacquesm »

bjarneh wrote: post #25
sva_ wrote: post #3

It appears like they're just going through a "rebranding" https://mobile.twitter.com/Pingu/status/1469314222349852675 Quote from the OP article: > the public prosecutor's office wanted to secure the assets potentially obtained from an unlawful act by means of an asset freeze in order to be able to confiscate them if necessary. The group of companies escaped seizure through insolvency So you know what's going on.

> companies escaped seizure through insolvency This is a strange arrangement that I guess most countries follow. Companies are legal entities, that can be sued and so on. But a company cannot go to jail (board members or stock owners don't typically go to jail either). These legal entities can also seize to exist (like in this example), and then there is nobody left to be held accountable... It seems like most countr…

Big difference between board members and stockholders. Board members are liable to some extent stockholders almost never are, unless the business was specifically founded to facilitate crime. That's where the term Ultimate Beneficiary comes into play.

Re: Stage win: FinFisher is bankrupt

#48

Post by vincnetas »

nikanj wrote: post #42
bjarneh wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> companies escaped seizure through insolvency This is a strange arrangement that I guess most countries follow. Companies are legal entities, that can be sued and so on. But a company cannot go to jail (board members or stock owners don't typically go to jail either). These legal entities can also seize to exist (like in this example), and then there is nobody left to be held accountable... It seems like most countr…

Most countries also stop criminal & civil proceedings if the human in question ceases to exist

Yes, but creating a company does not require 18 years compared to raising adult human. So this can be throw away entities.

Re: Stage win: FinFisher is bankrupt

#49

Post by DocTomoe »

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #27
DocTomoe wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

>On a related note: I trust Google with my data more happily than I trust the German state, for only one of those two has a history of building concentration camps. Do you also own stuff made in China? Like the device you posted this comment from? Because that government is actively running concentration camps right now. Where's the uproar against that? Germany has paid several times of for their mistakes.

1. If these Chinese camps are really comparable to traditional concentration camps is debatable.

2. I am unlikely to ever get into a situation in which the Chinese state has jurisdiction over me.

Re: Stage win: FinFisher is bankrupt

#50

Post by OtomotO »

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #41
tom899 wrote: post #37

They will continue under a new name and description. The success to this day is not remarkable. That software has not stopped criminals like Olaf Scholz and his buddies, nor has it protect a mayor of a city that was killed in his own house. So, its useless and unethical to think to automate prosecution. Too many false-positives and a bad success rate is not and can not be the goal to break basic rights. The real crim…

>they gather everyday in the parlaments with their shady double income, their wrongdoings and promises broken every day You can add Ursula v.d.L. to that list. I lost faith in all EU governments to do anything for the people.

Ultimate power corrupts ultimately...

okay, there are always exceptions to that rule, like e.g. Emperor Marcus Aurelius

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