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Microsoft is tied to hundreds of millions of dollars in foreign bribes

theverge.com

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Re: Microsoft is tied to hundreds of millions of dollars in foreign bribes

#71

Post by spaetzleesser »

legalcorrection wrote: post #19

The Foreign Corrupt Practices Act should be repealed and American companies should be allowed to compete on equal footing with their foreign competitors. No other country, even if it technically has an FCPA-like law on the books, actually enforces it to the extent the US does. It means that everyone is free to openly participate in bribery to win foreign markets, markets where bribery is just how business is done, wh…

I am against that. The result could be that US companies would go all in on bribing and make the countries even more corrupt. It would make the US even more hypocritical when they preach ethics to the world.

Re: Microsoft is tied to hundreds of millions of dollars in foreign bribes

#72

Post by sgm_ro »

This has been common knowledge for me for a long time, after this case surfaced in the media here in Romania: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_licensing_corruption...

Pretty much all of the public system uses windows as OS, and most of the times it's just to use a browser to access a webapp. But there are actual windows lock-ins (due to people training and existing workflow/infrastructure that has no incentive to change), such as MS Office and Adobe Reader.

So there was no reason for Microsoft to bribe decision-making people to use windows, windows was already firmly locked in, they did it just so they can overprice licenses and for them to accept leased licenses instead of a permanent one time pay windows license. Big win for MS and bribe takers, big loss to common decency and public spending availability.

A sign of a healthy democratic government can be seen in the decisions to build future public software infrastructure on open source technology, and use Linux as client/server OS (as it's pretty much the only other alternative offering similar ease of use/maintenance/compatibility with existing software).

edit: wrote this to show it's not necessarily the cost of doing business, in most places, because the software ecosystem is already locked in and can't be replaced overnight and without considerable spending. It's just the cost of extracting more public money. And sometimes it's the cost to keep the business safe from decisions to steer towards Opensource: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LiMux

Re: Microsoft is tied to hundreds of millions of dollars in foreign bribes

#73

Post by striking »

jimbob45 wrote: post #55
mistrial9 wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

this is a formal fallacy - joining something substantial, serious and a matter of public law, to something personal, of little consequence, and governed at a local level. please reconsider this as this important public discussion evolves on YNews?

His example was fine and doesn’t stand alone. Who’s to say that other countries don’t consider US lobbying to be a form of bribery? Realistically, no country is going to see their own bribery as actual bribery because no one wants to have to blatantly admit they’re the bad guy.

There are laws around transparency in lobbying in the US. It would be bribery if you didn't abide by those laws when conducting your lobbying activities.

Re: Microsoft is tied to hundreds of millions of dollars in foreign bribes

#74

Post by wpietri »

mc32 wrote: post #38
lemoncookiechip wrote: post #6

> "What is a shock: This time around, the SEC and DOJ have both declined to investigate Microsoft over the same types of bribes in the Middle East and Africa. They acknowledged my evidence (which I submitted three times) yet did not take up the case, claiming that the current pandemic has prevented them from gathering more evidence from abroad—even though I have already provided documentation that I believe shows Mic…

Are the bribes being directed by MS US or are these things taking place in overseas offices where customs are different? One example was Hungary --I imagine Ukraine and Nigeria too would have executives there who are part of the local culture where they do things differently. While the actions go afoul of US law, they may be in line with local customs culture and practices --that is harder to root out as now you are…

It doesn't matter. For US persons and companies, it's always illegal.

Here's the official page: https://www.trade.gov/us-foreign-corrupt-practices-act

Here's the Wikipedia article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_Corrupt_Practices_Act

And here's a detailed look at one particular project, a Trump project in Azerbaijan: https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/03/13/donald-trumps-...

Re: Microsoft is tied to hundreds of millions of dollars in foreign bribes

#75

Post by reincarnate0x14 »

lemoncookiechip wrote: post #6

> "What is a shock: This time around, the SEC and DOJ have both declined to investigate Microsoft over the same types of bribes in the Middle East and Africa. They acknowledged my evidence (which I submitted three times) yet did not take up the case, claiming that the current pandemic has prevented them from gathering more evidence from abroad—even though I have already provided documentation that I believe shows Mic…

More likely that Microsoft learned a very good lesson from their 1990s encounter with the DOJ, but it wasn't the hoped for "stop doing illegal and unethical things" but instead "make more and better targeted political contributions."

Re: Microsoft is tied to hundreds of millions of dollars in foreign bribes

#76

Post by mc32 »

wpietri wrote: post #74
mc32 wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are the bribes being directed by MS US or are these things taking place in overseas offices where customs are different? One example was Hungary --I imagine Ukraine and Nigeria too would have executives there who are part of the local culture where they do things differently. While the actions go afoul of US law, they may be in line with local customs culture and practices --that is harder to root out as now you are…

It doesn't matter. For US persons and companies, it's always illegal. Here's the official page: https://www.trade.gov/us-foreign-corrupt-practices-act Here's the Wikipedia article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_Corrupt_Practices_Act And here's a detailed look at one particular project, a Trump project in Azerbaijan: https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/03/13/donald-trumps-...

Of course the US considers it illegal. But if you’re a Bulgarian executive running the Bulgarian subsidiary of a US company, they may do things closer to local custom despite US corporate directives. You’re demanding that foreigners extirpate their foreignness while they are employees of a US company. It’s not going to happen 100%.

Re: Microsoft is tied to hundreds of millions of dollars in foreign bribes

#77

Post by goodpoint »

tombert wrote: post #70
goodpoint wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's well known that Microsoft has been giving bribes even to small companies for many decades. The entity of the bribes from MS are above average.

Is it considered a "bribe" if it's a transaction between private companies? I would think that's just considered a "discount" at that point. Not saying it's right, I'm just saying that I thought there might be a legal distinction.

It is a bribe because it goes into the pockets of individuals rather than savings for the company.

Re: Microsoft is tied to hundreds of millions of dollars in foreign bribes

#78

Post by boomboomsubban »

bnt wrote: post #40

Let's see how The Verge falls out of Microsoft's grace moving forward. The Verge had (what feels like) direct access to top MS execs for all product launches. I guess those days are over. Don't get me wrong, if this was picked up by the SEC or DOJ - I'd take it more seriously, but it sounds like accusations with no real proof.

Will MSN also fall out if Microsoft's grace? https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/microsoft-allegedly-connec...

Re: Microsoft is tied to hundreds of millions of dollars in foreign bribes

#79

Post by cute_boi »

anonymousDan wrote: post #5

Fair play to this guy whoever he is. If only more people had his integrity.

He is an anomaly, and we are lucky that people like him exist. The system incentivizes pretentious, artifice people who trick people via skulduggery. And, M$ should realize that committing such unforgivable sins like corruption in Africa means they are responsible for hunger and poverty in Africa.

If the atrocities were committed by Chinese/Indian companies, the media would have vehemently criticized those countries and companies. But, as long as US and EU are involved media seems to be silent which I don't like.

Re: Microsoft is tied to hundreds of millions of dollars in foreign bribes

#80

Post by missedthecue »

igetspam wrote: post #57
Overtonwindow wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I work in government, and I remember a story told to me by a federal official who was involved in the arrest of a former member of congress for bribery. The official told me that, essentially what the congressman did was illegal under federal law, but it was what you had to do in order to "do business" in "those parts of the world." I found that interesting. With what is going on today in the world, between nations c…

While in India once, I ran into a friend from Google who was out there trying to build a data center. Total coincidence that we were both there at the same time. I was there to hire and train for another company and he was there to break ground. He'd been there for week and they'd yet to start doing more than some bare minimums related to surveys and permits. I was surprised that he was there at all, given the curren…

Meanwhile in America and the entire west to an extent, you have the government trying to "bribe" businesses to open in their jurisdiction through tax incentives and so forth.

Really interesting cultural difference.

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