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A sequence that we see all the time in the world of junk science

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Re: A sequence that we see all the time in the world of junk science

#71

Post by alex_smart »

alphabettsy wrote: post #11
Zealotux wrote: post #7

"A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes" – Author unclear Can we talk about the supposedly "cosmonauts arriving in the ISS wearing Ukraine's color" for a moment by the way? I saw that news posted at least 3 times today on HN, and it has been pushed all days on the front page on all media over here, I even got a notification on my phone from news outlets. But looking deeper i…

What’s to talk about? They are wearing uniforms that happen to have the same colors as Ukraine’s flag. > yet news outlet have _zero_ doubt this is a political message from the cosmonauts. Citation please. I’ve seen a couple of articles about it, neither offered a conclusion.

>I’ve seen a couple of articles about it, neither offered a conclusion.

You seem completely out of touch on how propaganda works. Nobody reads the headline anymore, and news websites know it better than anything else. If the headline presents the news from a particular slant and then questions that slant in the 6th paragraph that 99.9999% of people coming across the article never read, that doesn't make the article not misinformation.

Read the threads on reddit on the topic. 100k+ upvotes, thousands of comments all showing that this sort of propaganda works beautifully.

Re: A sequence that we see all the time in the world of junk science

#72

Post by rsfern »

SV_BubbleTime wrote: post #50
quinnjh wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At this point, true facts are considered russian propoganda when the press secretary has an agenda of full fiction.

Hunter Biden’s lost laptop confirmed real by the New York Times this week. A video that was on it of him sitting nearly naked in a hotel room, smoking crack rocks, and telling a hooker how his last laptop was stolen by Russians and they were trying to blackmail him - completely skipped over. When asked about the absolutely real laptop, she deflected to say it’s proven that Russians have been spreading misinformation.…

You linked to an editorial in the wall street journal in another thread, but it seems like you didn’t actually read the times piece. The times confirmed that some of the emails in the email dump from the alleged laptop are authentic, that’s it. Which IIRC they reported back in 2020.

The times article doesn’t even discuss the video you’re referring to, and it doesn’t confirm that the laptop actually belonged to Biden. Maybe those things are true, maybe not, but as far as I can tell there’s no new information here.

This is what’s linked by the WSJ: https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/16/us/politics/hunter-biden-...

Re: A sequence that we see all the time in the world of junk science

#73

Post by rsfern »

insickness wrote: post #15
estaseuropano wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This appears to be a strange self-conversation. You take words and twist them until they fit a point you wanted to make. Apparently you believe in things that most don't believe and that have been labeled (by whom?) as Russian propaganda. What does this add or subtract to the article? And if I dare say so: if others get the impression that ideas you share are propaganda it is worth reflecting how you formed these opi…

My point is that the "misinformation" label has constantly been used as a cover to censor. Two cases in point: 1. To say that Covid may have originated in a lab would get you censored on youtube, facebook and most other social media. It was misinformation until it wasn't. Now the lab leak theory is just as viable. https://www.politico.com/news/2021/05/26/facebook-ban-covid-... 2. When the story of Hunter Biden's lapt…

Why not link to the Times article on your second point? It’s more nuanced than you are making it seem. They’re just reporting that some of the emails in the email dump are authentic, not confirming the entire affair

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/16/us/politics/hunter-biden-...

This is what the Times reported in 2020: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/22/us/politics/hunter-biden-...

Re: A sequence that we see all the time in the world of junk science

#74

Post by CrzyLngPwd »

I'm worn out by the news, the transparent propaganda on both sides, the screaming for war from some small but vocal groups, and the general feeling of doom when I think about what is happening in Ukraine.

I have no faith in the MSM any more, and I find the war news is also infecting other areas of life.

I think, having been bombarded with claims and counter claims for the last few years, and seeing media shutting down discussion that doesn't fit, I am utterly exhausted by it.

What's a guy to do?

Re: A sequence that we see all the time in the world of junk science

#75

Post by throwmeariver1 »

sam-2727 wrote: post #29
Buttons840 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is hard to do a search on the topic that isn't overwhelmed with 100 large and small new sites all reporting the same thing. However, thinking critically, what are the odds that these colors just happen to perfectly align with the Ukrainian flag? Also, I've never see any space suite, from any country, in a yellow color. I've at least attempted to find evidence that they've used yellow suits before, but haven't foun…

Here's a picture of the same color suit on the same person in 2015: https://twitter.com/OlegMKS/status/605693958015057921

You know what happened in 2014? We just don't know why does everyone feel the need to be right and no one can admit that from an external point of view SOMETIMES you just can't know the real reason behind actions of other people.

Re: A sequence that we see all the time in the world of junk science

#76

Post by sdoering »

Zealotux wrote: post #7

"A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes" – Author unclear Can we talk about the supposedly "cosmonauts arriving in the ISS wearing Ukraine's color" for a moment by the way? I saw that news posted at least 3 times today on HN, and it has been pushed all days on the front page on all media over here, I even got a notification on my phone from news outlets. But looking deeper i…

I have to admit I worked in "news" a few years back. Since then I mostly refrain from the dopamine kick of reading news (or headlines).

Imho news is like a mix of slot machine (aka Skinner Box) and a 'Confirmation Bias Machine'. Our brain is wired to prefer new things. Especially if we have the delusion this new thing (or information) might benefit us in some way.

What I found enlightening was the late Hans Rosling's idea (in his book Factfulness) that one roughly consumes (on average) about 10.000 news pieces a year (about 30 per day). And that one should ask oneself how many of them trigger or at least influence a relevant decision one makes/has to make.

How much of news is noise vs. signal?

To me this combination of low signal-to-noise ratio and addictive quality of media/news consumption while fostering my confirmation bias was enough to change jobs and turn my back to news.

Given the additional fact of massive propaganda in war times (or any crisis) would only be the icing on the proverbial cake.

Re: A sequence that we see all the time in the world of junk science

#78

Post by throwoutway »

rsfern wrote: post #72
SV_BubbleTime wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hunter Biden’s lost laptop confirmed real by the New York Times this week. A video that was on it of him sitting nearly naked in a hotel room, smoking crack rocks, and telling a hooker how his last laptop was stolen by Russians and they were trying to blackmail him - completely skipped over. When asked about the absolutely real laptop, she deflected to say it’s proven that Russians have been spreading misinformation.…

You linked to an editorial in the wall street journal in another thread, but it seems like you didn’t actually read the times piece. The times confirmed that some of the emails in the email dump from the alleged laptop are authentic, that’s it. Which IIRC they reported back in 2020. The times article doesn’t even discuss the video you’re referring to, and it doesn’t confirm that the laptop actually belonged to Biden.…

> Which IIRC they reported back in 2020.

I don’t know if they did, but did they do it before or after the election?

Because before the election, both SV and MSM were trying to shut the story down as “misinformation”. Only later (after the election) did I notice that it was quietly confirmed, but that was more convenient for Biden wasn’t it?

Re: A sequence that we see all the time in the world of junk science

#79

Post by danaris »

brandonmenc wrote: post #65
ModernMech wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I knew I shouldn't have linked to Greenwald. I'm glad you did because he's a perfect example of what I'm talking about. > There are concerns about biolabs. Nuland said exactly that. She even used the word "concern". Greenwald did a great job directing you to the conclusion he wanted you to draw. Because even after, I assume, you've read his piece you still have the big question mark over your head, which is "what e…

> So now you really have to call into question everything that was said from the people with the perspective that Putin is a genius tactician. Actually, the people who spent the last half-decade telling me that Putin was "playing chess" are the exact same people who are now telling me he's unhinged and mentally ill and that we need to send F-16s to Poland. But really, the specifics don't matter to me. Biolabs or not,…

> imo we should just be avoiding WW3. Everything else is secondary. Maybe that means Ukraine is not defendable.

This is called "appeasement", and when you practice it with aggressively expansionist dictators, all it gets you is lots of land conquered by them and people killed before you actually admit that they need to be stopped.

Re: A sequence that we see all the time in the world of junk science

#80

Post by epakai »

brandonmenc wrote: post #65
ModernMech wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I knew I shouldn't have linked to Greenwald. I'm glad you did because he's a perfect example of what I'm talking about. > There are concerns about biolabs. Nuland said exactly that. She even used the word "concern". Greenwald did a great job directing you to the conclusion he wanted you to draw. Because even after, I assume, you've read his piece you still have the big question mark over your head, which is "what e…

> So now you really have to call into question everything that was said from the people with the perspective that Putin is a genius tactician. Actually, the people who spent the last half-decade telling me that Putin was "playing chess" are the exact same people who are now telling me he's unhinged and mentally ill and that we need to send F-16s to Poland. But really, the specifics don't matter to me. Biolabs or not,…

What if there's no avoiding WW3? Short of a collapse in Russia there doesn't seem to be a path back from this effort. Nothing in the past decade has put a damper on Putin's empire rebuilding.
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