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Trudeau announces intention to freeze bank accounts of protestors

bbc.com

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Re: Trudeau announces intention to freeze bank accounts of protestors

#71

Post by pinephoneguy »

causi wrote: post #30

Not that the trucker protestors are right, but watching the Right and Left do a complete 180 and copy/paste each others' comments from the 2020 BLM protests is either the funniest or the saddest thing I've ever seen. It seems more and more that people only pretend to have principals so long as they can use them to advocate for their own side.

These people are moderate libertarians, not the right. If it was the right and if they were copy/pasting from BLM it would be a violent White supremacy movement. That's just not going to happen.

Re: Trudeau announces intention to freeze bank accounts of protestors

#72

Post by LudwigNagasena »

verelo wrote: post #26
verisimi wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apparently it also includes people who donated to their cause. A peaceful, non-violent cause. Wow. North Korea, look out!

Except it’s really not that anymore. Constant noise disruptions, gridlocking the city…it’s causing harm and the protests have damaged property, businesses and even gone as far to dance on the war memorials. These are not our best people.

Except it is[1] when you want to appease your Sikh community.

Tactics used during the protests that Trudeau supported and described as peaceful[2]: Gherao (encirclement), dharna (sit-in), raasta roko (traffic obstruction), demonstration, suicide, counter legislation.

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y0h48p7JspA

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020%E2%80%932021_Indian_farme...

Re: Trudeau announces intention to freeze bank accounts of protestors

#73

Post by Overtonwindow »

thereddaikon wrote: post #22
tyleo wrote: post #3

I’d like to expand on some thoughts I had in another thread that provoked some interesting discussion: If the protests are peaceful, the government should not shut them down. But at what point do the economic impacts of a protest cross a line such that they aren’t peaceful? I personally feel that the slippery slope runs in both directions: * The government expanding its power to block more protests is a slippery slop…

To further complicate the matter, protests are completely ineffectual if they do not impact others in some way. Its easy to say that protesters should be considerate and not get in the way. But if they do that then their message is easy to ignore. Protest by nature must be civil disobedience to have any real effect. What troubles me in this regard is that the Canadian government in general, and Trudeau in particular,…

I disagree, the riots in America perpetrated by antifa had a significant policy shift and public opinion impact. The burning of Kenosha and other cities, was probably the only time a protest in modern history has had an effect on public policy.

Re: Trudeau announces intention to freeze bank accounts of protestors

#74

Post by kkjjkgjjgg »

causi wrote: post #30

Not that the trucker protestors are right, but watching the Right and Left do a complete 180 and copy/paste each others' comments from the 2020 BLM protests is either the funniest or the saddest thing I've ever seen. It seems more and more that people only pretend to have principals so long as they can use them to advocate for their own side.

Maybe it's the difference between protesting and rioting? Did the truckers burn stuff down and loot shops?

Re: Trudeau announces intention to freeze bank accounts of protestors

#75

Post by Wolfenstein98k »

jagger27 wrote: post #56
young_unixer wrote: post #17

Is there some point at which people will start rejecting this arbitrary and excessive exercise of power? This sets a dangerous precedent for a country that until now we considered a liberal democracy with freedom and respect for individual rights. I wonder if we're all headed to a point where state control and erosion of freedom are widely accepted by the public in our western democracies.

Name a single “liberal democracy” where any group would be permitted to occupy a capital city for three weeks uncontested. People really aren’t grasping how weak it makes Canada look that it allowed its own capital to be held in a chokehold so easily. There are people on the streets (and in this thread) demanding that elected officials resign while a strong majority of Canadians disagree with the “protest”.

All that may be true (though some will quibble)...

However, what's the answer without contravening liberal democracy?

There is no principle within liberalism or democracy that says "if the legal protest lasts more than X it stops being legal".

Re: Trudeau announces intention to freeze bank accounts of protestors

#76

Post by AlexandrB »

throwawayay02 wrote: post #44
tyleo wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is just one side of the slippery slope though. Assuming we took this recommendation as a rule, it seems that a convoy of truckers could organize, shut down an economy, and force an election any time they disagreed with something. This does not seem like a recipe for effective government.

No? It seems a recipe for a perfect government. Whenever X% of the population wants that much to throw down the government, that's probably a good time for a remodel. Might not be as effective as a dictatorship or a oligarchy, sure, must a much better government to live under.

It's not even a majority % of Canadian truckers in Ottawa. Let alone the population of Canada. This seems like a great way to establish a tyranny.

> Might not be as effective as a dictatorship or a oligarchy, sure, must a much better government to live under.

Oh, I see. That's what you're advocating for.

Re: Trudeau announces intention to freeze bank accounts of protestors

#77

Post by bryanlarsen »

edot wrote: post #46
verelo wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except it’s really not that anymore. Constant noise disruptions, gridlocking the city…it’s causing harm and the protests have damaged property, businesses and even gone as far to dance on the war memorials. These are not our best people.

You could describe MLK’s protests as disruptive, causing gridlock, damaging to businesses, etc. BLM protestors danced on and destroyed statues as well. The whole point of protest is to be disruptive. Being anti-vax is super stupid but protesting government mandates (or systemic racism, or anything) should be allowed.

The whole point of an escalated protest is being willing to accept the consequences. If you park illegally, you expect to get a parking ticket, protest or no. You expect your vehicle to get towed. If you defy a court injunction, you expect to spend the night in jail.

The people chaining themselves to trees expect to get arrested and spend time in jail. They also expect that their time in jail will help their cause.

Being part of a protest is not a "get out of jail free" card. Rather the opposite, spending some time in jail is part of the point.

Re: Trudeau announces intention to freeze bank accounts of protestors

#78

Post by Wolfenstein98k »

failedengineer wrote: post #60
verisimi wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apparently it also includes people who donated to their cause. A peaceful, non-violent cause. Wow. North Korea, look out!

The majority of the money was foreign. edit: and is not being funneled to the actual protestors. The people recently arrested tried to get some to use for legal fees. No bueno. yeah, yeah, no citation. Pretty hard to cite facebook posts that were removed because of subject matter.

This is false.

Re: Trudeau announces intention to freeze bank accounts of protestors

#79

Post by loceng »

I hope people see this: Tamara Lich (one of the convoy protest organizers) and Brian Peckford (the last living First Minister/premiere of a province, retired in 1984 I believe, and directly helped draft our Charter of Rights and Freedoms) did a press conference yesterday - which helps explain the situation.

Facebook original link: https://www.facebook.com/watch/live/?v=2883409135138326

YouTube copy (poor quality): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CoMyyXRmR8U

The convoy organizers and protestors are vast majority peaceful, and not the myriad of other lies used by Trudeau to promote hate and mislead Canadians and the world.

Edit to add: This is the 1st time Emergency Act (War Measures Act) has been invoked in Canadian history, this 100% should allowed to stay up and allow discussion on - else HN is just another place for ideological bubbles to stay coddled/sheltered - and for people to not hear the truth.

Re: Trudeau announces intention to freeze bank accounts of protestors

#80

Post by verisimi »

tyleo wrote: post #55
verisimi wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But why is it ok for governments around the world destroy our economies for the past 2 years? Or rather, to destroy the SMEs, but allow corporations to carry on and even take up the slack?

I don’t think it is okay. I think protests and elections are great ways to register discontent with a state of affairs. But should the powers of protests go so far that small groups can shut down large parts of an economy? It is my understanding that the convoy is hundreds of trucks. This is already disproportionate power for few people but what if dozens could shut down an economy peacefully? It seems to me that a l…

So, you are fine with the government shutting down the economy for years, mandating of experimental health treatments to gain access to work, etc, but you are not ok with people protesting against those decisions even when their livelihoods are at stake?

Do you realise too that Trudeau got ~30% of the vote, and that his party didn't even receive the most votes but win on account of the electoral system? IE voting every 4 years can only get you so far..

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