Live data from Hacker News

Internet addiction and the habit of book reading

benwajdi.com

71–80 of 383 posts

Re: Internet addiction and the habit of book reading

#71

HN represents a wellspring of deeper reading than is generally afforded by the current entertainment cruft portals of the web - reddit, FB, insta, USA today, financial times, etc etc down to the SEO hellholes of recipe sites, youtube product placement; you get the idea. Let's appreciate HN for the quality of reading material and its curb on our drift to the rest of the 'popular' web. And I don't think I'm alone in al…

Okay I do like HN—I'm here for a reason after all—but it is flawed like any other curation. For one, I find that it veers extremely literal and nerdy. For some topics such as programming and math, this is wonderful, as programming and math are both topics where literalism and nerdiness are required.

But in some cases this blend is not great. I wouldn't put HN as a great place to get your knowledge of more social, cultural content. There are good articles on occasion and of course great users/comments, but there are times when I am confronted with the fact that there is a remarkable homogeneity which is reflected in the discourse on race, gender, politics, etc. This is a site populated by primarily tech workers and we have to face facts that tech workers are predominantly white and Asian and male, indeed predominantly cis-hetereosexual male. I don't mean any of this in an accusatory fashion; this is simply the reality of tech. But it does mean that the discourse is not capturing the entire spectrum of experiences and the few voices who do not fit these paradigms can, on occasion, be overwhelmed by the majority.

Not to mention, as a tech worker forum, I'd hazard that the average commenter is far more well versed in tech than in say, US politics or third wave feminism. Much as we'd find the discourse on technology in a politics forum rather naive and uninformed, I'd have to imagine that a politics expert would find the political discussions on HN similarly so.

TL;DR: Use HN as part of a balanced information diet. Read books and try to get out of the tech worker bubble.

Re: Internet addiction and the habit of book reading

#72
I had the advantage of becoming an adult before the Internet even though I was on it earlier than most people. So I can clearly remember both before and after. While its overwhelmingly beneficial not all of it was good.

I've observed that some of my richer friends are limiting their kids screen time. In fact it's becoming almost universal among those who work in tech. Clearly some of them want their kids to become more balanced. It's hilarious to see these kids to be told to leave the house and play with your friends. They don't know what to do! Boomers never had that problem or had to be asked twice.

I've got an extremely talented friend who is paying each of his kids to read the classics and write book reports which he reviews. The kids in the beginning did it for the money but there is a sense of pride on what they're learning that their peers are not. Certain books became classics for a reason!

My late Mother took us to the library every single week and often checked out and read more books than we did. I naively thought that everyone's parents did the same but I learned that wasn't the case. I think fostering a love of books is one of the greatest gift she gave us.

Re: Internet addiction and the habit of book reading

#73

HN represents a wellspring of deeper reading than is generally afforded by the current entertainment cruft portals of the web - reddit, FB, insta, USA today, financial times, etc etc down to the SEO hellholes of recipe sites, youtube product placement; you get the idea. Let's appreciate HN for the quality of reading material and its curb on our drift to the rest of the 'popular' web. And I don't think I'm alone in al…

Okay I do like HN—I'm here for a reason after all—but it is flawed like any other curation. For one, I find that it veers extremely literal and nerdy. For some topics such as programming and math, this is wonderful, as programming and math are both topics where literalism and nerdiness are required. But in some cases this blend is not great. I wouldn't put HN as a great place to get your knowledge of more social, cul…

> tech workers and we have to face facts that tech workers are predominantly white and Asian and male

In the US at least many tech companies have way more Indians that white. It's funny to me how Indians in the US are usually not in the white/asian conversation, and even often put in the "people of color" group. Just shows most people think race is about skin color.

Re: Internet addiction and the habit of book reading

#74

I actually read more books now. I download them and load them up on my phone and read them like crazy. Also discussions on sites like this have expanded my articulation and understanding of many concepts and topics. I spent a lot of time, years, dedicating a significant potion of my life to reading educational material of all sorts. I don't know if I use the internet differently, maybe, I don't use Facebook or twitte…

I bought a Kindle and that was nice, but I'm terrible at remembering to bring it with me when I leave the house, and the (admittedly small) effort of having to connect it to my computer to load epubs onto it is enough friction to stop me from doing it in the first place a lot of the time. I usually obtain them from less than legal sources and buy a hardcopy if I like it.

For awhile I was buying ebooks straight from the Kindle store on the device itself but something about paying the same price for a file as a hardcopy left a bad taste in my mouth. I'd rather have something to put on my shelf and I can loan to friends. Plus paying for the book up front is a bit of a risk if it sucks, because I can't return it or resell it or even give it away to someone else.

The past few months I've just been loading the books straight to my phone and I've read more new books in the last 3 months than I have in the last 3 years. Definitely a game changer.

Re: Internet addiction and the habit of book reading

#75
The present state of reading and the internet is another example of the familiar tension that a healthy diet and processed foods demonstrate. Those that still read and write are like those that jogged, abstained from smoking, and ate balanced meals in the seventies. There is an intrinsic good to reading, one that readers have an intuition for, and that good merely needs to be discovered again by the culture and made explicit. No few of us are lost to the negative effects of internet, just like no few people simply will not overcome their reliance on sweets. We do go on, but leave the kind of material in our wake that the likes of the Johns Stewart and Oliver can use to make their living.

Re: Internet addiction and the habit of book reading

#77
I'm not in the whole anti-Internet camp, indeed my viewpoint is far closer to Randall Munroe's[1]. But it is a little sad how few of my peers read books. I just finished three volumes of the Robert Caro series on Lyndon Johnson along with The Power Broker. Now, granted, these are big tomes. They also cover a topic that most people would not find interesting. Yet I still find it very depressing how almost all of my peers balk at the idea of reading them. Part of the reason they balk is, yes, the length and topic, but also because reading has become such a chore, such an unusual event, that the idea of reading a 800 page book is akin to running a marathon. If you struggle to read a 200 page book, an 800 page book appears impossible.

And yet, inside these books, there is absolutely multitudes. There's more insight and political knowledge and facts than thousands of blog posts and news articles, aided by thorough, comprehensive decades-long research. There's also pure pleasure. The writing quality is so far and above the pedestrian prose that you see on the internet. It's like eating your first bite of top notch sushi after years of cold supermarket stuff. I can't tell you how emotional I got reading about the Civil Rights movement, about the trial of Emmett Till, about Coke Stevenson[2], about the Rural Electrification movement. There's no blog or article that compares.

[1]: https://xkcd.com/1414/

[2]: Even if that portrayal is considered to be suspect. Although if you ask me, I think the rebuttal of "but Stevenson was a virulent racist" ignores the fact that everybody, LBJ included, was a virulent racist at the time and to tar Stevenson with that brush is to apply modern sensibilities to a different era.

Re: Internet addiction and the habit of book reading

#78
post #46

Socrates famously hated the written form, not because it was technologically advanced for its time, but because it was "dead": you can't have a conversation with a piece of writing, or ask the author to explain something that's on the page. I disagree (and agree, indirectly, with the OP): deadness is a feature, not a bug. The problem with Internet writing is not just its addictive nature, it's groupthink. It is too m…

I think a parallel argument to Socrates's could be made for the internet -- it is "alive", but in a much lower-dimensional way than real conversation with people in the world who have bodies and families. Online, everyone is a disembodied psyche -- so much is abstracted ideas, universalized groups and events, unbounded emotion/impulse. Talking with someone in real life almost requires confronting the shared humility and complexity of being a person. Avatars and text do not.

Re: Internet addiction and the habit of book reading

#79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay I do like HN—I'm here for a reason after all—but it is flawed like any other curation. For one, I find that it veers extremely literal and nerdy. For some topics such as programming and math, this is wonderful, as programming and math are both topics where literalism and nerdiness are required. But in some cases this blend is not great. I wouldn't put HN as a great place to get your knowledge of more social, cul…

> tech workers and we have to face facts that tech workers are predominantly white and Asian and male In the US at least many tech companies have way more Indians that white. It's funny to me how Indians in the US are usually not in the white/asian conversation, and even often put in the "people of color" group. Just shows most people think race is about skin color.

I view it as Indian ⊆ Asian ⊆ people of color. I agree that Indians are often neglected in the Asian discourse, although I think there's been more work to include non-East Asians in the conversation lately.

Re: Internet addiction and the habit of book reading

#80
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's like saying we have a driving addiction or a going to work addiction. Not everything can or should be couched in that kind of language. I've always found articles about internet and game addiction to be incredibly myopic, assuming that the "normal" of the 60's or 70's or 80's is somehow universal or worthy of being preserved, and that any deviation from it is an illness.

Addiction exists, though. I often browse Twitter for no particular reason. Six months ago I changed my year of birth for something like 2017 because I was annoyed it was compulsory. That resulted in an immediate suspension, as Twitter forbids minors to use it (rightfully so); the suspension would only be lifted if I submitted an ID. At first I thought "who cares?" But then I found myself in want of browsing the (few)…

> I get nothing out of Twitter. Absolutely zero value. Still, apparently, I can't live without it. That's a problem.

Knowing nothing about you, the way this sentence is put is the most disturbing part. If you can’t live without it, at least it fills a hole in your life and that’s as much value as you could expect from anything.

How many things do you do in a day where you can put a crystal clear value on it? I mean, I’m writing this and I’d be hard press to come with a valuation, and I also don’t think it matters much if I don’t find any.

If looking at Twitter reduced your life expectancy by 25% we’d look at it differently, but from your description it doesn’t feels so.

Post reply on HN