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Number of journalists in jail reaches global high

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Re: Number of journalists in jail reaches global high

#71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Usual problem - how do you define a journalist and how do you say whether they've been jailed for being a journalist or not.

This is the CPJ definition: "CPJ defines journalists as people who cover the news or comment on public affairs in any media, including print, photographs, radio, television, and online." I'd say that both Murray and Assange legitimately fit into this definition. Unfortunately in the UK you're only considered a "journalist" if you can join the cosy boys club that is the NUJ, which is a bit like saying you're not a rea…

> people who ... comment on public affairs in any media

I mean... I do that, but I'm clearly not a journalist.

Re: Number of journalists in jail reaches global high

#72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Usual problem - how do you define a journalist and how do you say whether they've been jailed for being a journalist or not.

This is the CPJ definition: "CPJ defines journalists as people who cover the news or comment on public affairs in any media, including print, photographs, radio, television, and online." I'd say that both Murray and Assange legitimately fit into this definition. Unfortunately in the UK you're only considered a "journalist" if you can join the cosy boys club that is the NUJ, which is a bit like saying you're not a rea…

Professional organizations are extremely effective gatekeeping mechanisms.

Re: Number of journalists in jail reaches global high

#73
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Usual problem - how do you define a journalist and how do you say whether they've been jailed for being a journalist or not.

How to define a journalist is a tough problem I can't easily solve, but I'd be inclined to say that once you do, any of them being in jail for any reason should count. The risk of overcounting the few journalists who might genuinely commit crimes unrelated to their journalism seems lower than the risk of undercounting journalists who were in reality jailed because of their journalism, but were officially for invented…

Are you suggesting a (jailed journalist) / (total journalists in the country) ratio to determine the level of control that the government is trying to exert?

Re: Number of journalists in jail reaches global high

#74
A satellite dish salesman with a storefront in Brooklyn, New York, was jailed in 2009 because he turned on the ability to watch al-Manar, a station associated with a political party that has made up 10+% of Lebanon's parliament since 2005 (both associated with the Shia organizational group in Lebanon, Hezbollah).

https://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/24/nyregion/24cable.html

Germany, France and other European countries have banned the channel as well.

Re: Number of journalists in jail reaches global high

#75
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fundamental problem is that there is no separation of powers between the government and the judiciary as you might find in most (all?) modern democracies. The Crown Office and Procurator Fiscal Service (COPFS) acts as the governments lawyers and the prosecution service. Most of the accusers in the trial of Alex Salmond, for which he was acquitted on all charges, are close associates of the leadership of the Scott…

I'm a bit confused by this statement about separation of powers. The function of a prosecutor is not a judicial function in the context of an adversarial legal system such as the common law.

True, but I think choosing which cases to prosecute (or not prosecute) based on political expediency rather than weight of evidence could be the danger here.

Re: Number of journalists in jail reaches global high

#76
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s actually a EU/US style when they forcibly downed the plane in Austria of a hesd of state Evo Morales of Bolivia. They then orchestrated a coup against Evo Morales, who had non-white indigenous support and over 50 percent, and replace him with a minority white supremacist regimes (5% vote). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evo_Morales_grounding_incident

While the grounding incident is shameful, your description of Morales' political situation bares no resemblance to reality whatsoever: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evo_Morales#2019_election_cont... He was term limited out and nearly triggered a revolution by choosing to ignore the constitution. His argument was "term limits are a human rights violation according to the American Convention on Human Rights". If a pres…

The Bolivian supreme court shot down the term limits constitutional amendment from 2009 and he still won the election coz he was well, the most popular candidate.

That didn't fly with the Bolivian opposition who rioted. The US wasn't happy either. The real kicker was the military and police telling Morales to step down, though. Control over the police and military is the key determinant of who wins an attempted coup. He lost that.

The US treats its own constitution with a sort of theoretical reverence, but e.g. the 4th amendment which existed for about 240 years was trashed completely and it barely merited comment. If there were violence (e.g. like the capital riots) because of, say, the 60 year old 22nd amendment being repealed by the supreme court it would be less about the reverence to the constitution and more about flagrant partisanship.

Re: Number of journalists in jail reaches global high

#77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sadly looking at the map in the OP, the UK is reported as 0 journalists imprisoned. Between Julian Assange and Craig Murray that seems low.

Usual problem - how do you define a journalist and how do you say whether they've been jailed for being a journalist or not.

[deleted]

Re: Number of journalists in jail reaches global high

#78
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Project Veritas was recently raided by the FBI and had material taken as well.

I think this is where the question of "what is a journalist?" comes into play. What legitimate journalism has Project Veritas done? Wikipedia makes them seem more like a political hit squad than legitimate journalists: == Project Veritas unsuccessfully attempted to mislead The Washington Post into publishing false information about the Roy Moore sexual misconduct allegations in 2017; the Post won a Pulitzer Prize aft…

Well Wikipedia and the NYT are hardly unbiassed sources, but for an independent left wing view I suggest you read what Glen Greenwald wrote:

"This not-a-real-journalist tactic was and remains the primary theory used by those who justify the ongoing attempt to imprison Julian Assange. In demanding Assange's prosecution under the Espionage Act, Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-CA) wrote in The Wall Street Journal that “Mr. Assange claims to be a journalist and would no doubt rely on the First Amendment to defend his actions.” Yet the five-term Senator insisted: "but he is no journalist: He is an agitator intent on damaging our government, whose policies he happens to disagree with, regardless of who gets hurt.”

This not-a-real-journalist slogan was also the one used by both the CIA and the corporate media against myself and my colleagues in both the Snowden reporting we did in 2013, as well as the failed attempt to criminally prosecute me in 2020 for the year-long Brazil exposés we did: punishing them is not an attack on press freedom because they are not journalists and what they did is not journalism."

https://greenwald.substack.com/p/kyle-rittenhouse-project-ve...

Re: Number of journalists in jail reaches global high

#79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sadly looking at the map in the OP, the UK is reported as 0 journalists imprisoned. Between Julian Assange and Craig Murray that seems low.

Usual problem - how do you define a journalist and how do you say whether they've been jailed for being a journalist or not.

I’m at a point where I’m willing to throw the word away. It’s just too imprecise.

I know what a reporter is, and I know what a columnist is. I know what an editor is, and I know what an editorial stance is. I know what it means for people to do these things professionally as their vocation. “Journalism” might still have some life left in it, but if somebody told me they were a journalist, my follow up question would still be “what do you do?”.

Re: Number of journalists in jail reaches global high

#80
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>So we don’t classify jailed and tortured Julian Assange as a journalist even though he broke amongst some of the biggest news stories over the last 20 years. I do believe he is considered a journalist but he's in prison for multiple reasons. False and retracted sexual assault allegations in Sweden. Which technically had nothing to do with journalism and far more to do with Sweden's considerable problem with rape in…

The following is not so much an attempt at arguing with the poster but to correct falsehoods and blatant misrepresentations in their post. > I do believe he is considered a journalist but he's in prison for multiple reasons. Right now he’s only in prison due to the extradition trial. The reason he isn’t out on bail is because he skipped bail in the past. > Sweden went to the extent that it's rape if you don't have wr…

>The following is not so much an attempt at arguing with the poster but to correct falsehoods and blatant misrepresentations in their post.

Always welcome being corrected. Not usually good when you open a reply calling me a liar.

>Right now he’s only in prison due to the extradition trial. The reason he isn’t out on bail is because he skipped bail in the past.

Aka multiple reasons. I dont believe I am lying here.

>This is an incredibly absurd recount of Swedish law. It’s evident you do not know much about it. Swedish law defines rape as sex without consent. This definition was passed in 2018. The accusations against Assange were made in 2010.

So you are asserting that I am a liar because rape wasn't illegal in 2010? Sure they updated the law in 2018 but rape was certainly illegal before 2018. What exactly dont i know about?

>The conviction rates do not reflect your assumption that sex itself is deemed illegal in Sweden. The charges against Assange were also dropped.

Convicted rape is up >1,000% over the last several decades in Sweden. Sweden is the rape capitol of the developed world. Are Swedish men disproportionately rapists compared to other countries like UK, Canada, or USA? Or is it their laws?

This app was created in Sweden: https://legalfling.io/ which by name implies sex is illegal unless steps are taken. This is tantamount to making sex illegal in sweden. As I said, 'effectively made sex illegal'. Their birthrates are down 25-50%. Very bad sign long term for their society.

>By the way, one accusation against him was that he penetrated a woman without a condom while she was sleeping. That is considered rape in most countries around the world.

Incorrect. That is what the prosecutor alleged but the women did not. It was fully consensual. Which is why assange wanted assurance that he would answer the crimes in sweden but only if it ends there. sweden cant extradite or anything. They didnt go for it because that's fully what they intended to do. The rape allegation didnt matter, it didnt matter that there was absolutely no chance of conviction because of public comments by the women. They wanted to extradite. The swedish prosecutor is clearly affiliated with the CIA.

>So even if we were to take your incorrect description of Sweden’s rape laws seriously they wouldn’t fit the bill here.

You never rebutted my 'description'. You never even provided one of your own.

>The US case against Assanges originated in the Obama era. However his administration decided to not go forward with it. It was Trump’s administration who decided to make the extradition request. Assange was forced out of the Ecuadorian embassy during Trump’s tenure. So this had nothing to do with DNC leaks, nor was this a Democrat endeavor.

Trump never ordered anything. It was public knowledge that he was approached on the subject and he refused to take part. Saying he wasn't going to influence the justice system. Either stopping the efforts put forth by Obama, pardoning or otherwise. As I said, he made a huge mistake doing that, pardoning assange would have been a very smart idea. Assange being thrown out of the embassy had nothing to do with trump. So ya absolutely, as you said obama era and dnc leaks is entirely what this is about.

>Whatever one thinks of Assange or his work with Wikileaks, the way he is being treated by the US and the UK is entirely absurd and does not show any signs of fair trial at this point.

I like wikileaks and such, so far the USA hasnt done much, The extradition isnt happening as far as I know. I highly doubt the appeal will work out. I guess we find out tomorrow, but i doubt the USA wins.

The UK had legitimate crimes for him to answer for. He was obviously convicted because he did commit the crime. Assange will likely soon be a free man and he'll get the Epstein treatment from the DNC.

> News outlets in the US have done a poor job at holding the government accountable here. If Assange does get extradited and convicted it will break journalism in the United States fundamentally.

You have a very bad understanding of news outlets in the USA. I'm not even sure where to start. You wont believe me anyway, I lie and blatantly misrepresent something.

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