Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Number of journalists in jail reaches global high

cpj.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

51–60 of 139 posts

Re: Number of journalists in jail reaches global high

#51

Post by koheripbal »

1cvmask wrote: post #3

So we don’t classify jailed and tortured Julian Assange as a journalist even though he broke amongst some of the biggest news stories over the last 20 years. Or that the Trump administration planned on assasinating him. Or that Joe Biden is trying to extradite him on trumped up charges (pun not intended). Or the Black TV reporter Bilal Abdul Kareem from Chicago that Obama tried to kill multiple times: https://www.rol…

It discredits the entire effort to omit journalists who don't support your agenda.

It really speaks to the heavy handed bias of the western main stream journalism industry.

Re: Number of journalists in jail reaches global high

#52

Post by koheripbal »

trompetenaccoun wrote: post #31
throwaway0070 wrote: post #14

What if someone is working as both a criminal and a journalist? We should not be letting criminals free just because they are also journalist. Journalist can be spy, separatist etc.

The same argument could be made about diplomats. Would you be in favor if abolishing diplomatic immunity? If anything journalists need better protection. Of course they can be criminals, in which case they should be prosecuted. In countries without rule of law authorities can already arrest and imprison journalists for no good reason, so it doesn't make a difference. But in more civilized places, it should be made mo…

This is an apples to oranges comparison.

Diplomats are specifically immune because they prevent war. They are certified by the nation sponsoring them.

Journalists are usually members of the country they are covering (particularly the ones who are jailed).

Re: Number of journalists in jail reaches global high

#53

Post by enriquto »

pydry wrote: post #8
1cvmask wrote: post #3

So we don’t classify jailed and tortured Julian Assange as a journalist even though he broke amongst some of the biggest news stories over the last 20 years. Or that the Trump administration planned on assasinating him. Or that Joe Biden is trying to extradite him on trumped up charges (pun not intended). Or the Black TV reporter Bilal Abdul Kareem from Chicago that Obama tried to kill multiple times: https://www.rol…

The absence of assange et al is notable but it's not a bad thing to be campaigning for the release of journalists in other countries.

The conspicuous absence of Assange is indeed very bad for the purported campaign for the release of journalists "in other countries". Such other countries can now rightfully point to the hypocrisy of this campaign.

What the CPJ is doing (omitting Assange in its list) is effectively harmful for the journalists jailed in other countries.

Re: Number of journalists in jail reaches global high

#54

Post by stickfigure »

1cvmask wrote: post #37
ineedasername wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Roman Protasevich's airplane I don't know, Russia has a long tradition (with the USSR before it) to get creative with assassinations. Everything from poisoning tea with somewhat exotic isotopes to smearing the insides of underwear with neurotoxins, an icepick to the head, or simply gunning someone down in the street.

That’s actually a EU/US style when they forcibly downed the plane in Austria of a hesd of state Evo Morales of Bolivia. They then orchestrated a coup against Evo Morales, who had non-white indigenous support and over 50 percent, and replace him with a minority white supremacist regimes (5% vote). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evo_Morales_grounding_incident

While the grounding incident is shameful, your description of Morales' political situation bares no resemblance to reality whatsoever:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evo_Morales#2019_election_cont...

He was term limited out and nearly triggered a revolution by choosing to ignore the constitution. His argument was "term limits are a human rights violation according to the American Convention on Human Rights". If a president tried to do that here in the US, the streets would run with blood, and rightfully so.

Re: Number of journalists in jail reaches global high

#55

Post by [deleted] »

chrisseaton wrote: post #46
gampleman wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sadly looking at the map in the OP, the UK is reported as 0 journalists imprisoned. Between Julian Assange and Craig Murray that seems low.

Usual problem - how do you define a journalist and how do you say whether they've been jailed for being a journalist or not.

[deleted]

Re: Number of journalists in jail reaches global high

#56

Post by pell »

sleepysysadmin wrote: post #16
1cvmask wrote: post #3

So we don’t classify jailed and tortured Julian Assange as a journalist even though he broke amongst some of the biggest news stories over the last 20 years. Or that the Trump administration planned on assasinating him. Or that Joe Biden is trying to extradite him on trumped up charges (pun not intended). Or the Black TV reporter Bilal Abdul Kareem from Chicago that Obama tried to kill multiple times: https://www.rol…

>So we don’t classify jailed and tortured Julian Assange as a journalist even though he broke amongst some of the biggest news stories over the last 20 years. I do believe he is considered a journalist but he's in prison for multiple reasons. False and retracted sexual assault allegations in Sweden. Which technically had nothing to do with journalism and far more to do with Sweden's considerable problem with rape in…

The following is not so much an attempt at arguing with the poster but to correct falsehoods and blatant misrepresentations in their post.

> I do believe he is considered a journalist but he's in prison for multiple reasons.

Right now he’s only in prison due to the extradition trial. The reason he isn’t out on bail is because he skipped bail in the past.

> Sweden went to the extent that it's rape if you don't have written consent for sex. They also removed all the intent/threats/violence as being part of it as well. Effectively they made sex illegal.

This is an incredibly absurd recount of Swedish law. It’s evident you do not know much about it. Swedish law defines rape as sex without consent. This definition was passed in 2018. The accusations against Assange were made in 2010. The conviction rates do not reflect your assumption that sex itself is deemed illegal in Sweden. The charges against Assange were also dropped.

By the way, one accusation against him was that he penetrated a woman without a condom while she was sleeping. That is considered rape in most countries around the world. So even if we were to take your incorrect description of Sweden’s rape laws seriously they wouldn’t fit the bill here.

> It is afterall the democrat email servers assange leaked. Biden's going all in for sure.

The US case against Assanges originated in the Obama era. However his administration decided to not go forward with it. It was Trump’s administration who decided to make the extradition request. Assange was forced out of the Ecuadorian embassy during Trump’s tenure. So this had nothing to do with DNC leaks, nor was this a Democrat endeavor.

Whatever one thinks of Assange or his work with Wikileaks, the way he is being treated by the US and the UK is entirely absurd and does not show any signs of fair trial at this point. News outlets in the US have done a poor job at holding the government accountable here. If Assange does get extradited and convicted it will break journalism in the United States fundamentally.

Re: Number of journalists in jail reaches global high

#57

Post by long_time_gone »

gadders wrote: post #20
1cvmask wrote: post #3

So we don’t classify jailed and tortured Julian Assange as a journalist even though he broke amongst some of the biggest news stories over the last 20 years. Or that the Trump administration planned on assasinating him. Or that Joe Biden is trying to extradite him on trumped up charges (pun not intended). Or the Black TV reporter Bilal Abdul Kareem from Chicago that Obama tried to kill multiple times: https://www.rol…

Project Veritas was recently raided by the FBI and had material taken as well.

I think this is where the question of "what is a journalist?" comes into play. What legitimate journalism has Project Veritas done?

Wikipedia makes them seem more like a political hit squad than legitimate journalists:

== Project Veritas unsuccessfully attempted to mislead The Washington Post into publishing false information about the Roy Moore sexual misconduct allegations in 2017; the Post won a Pulitzer Prize after uncovering the operation.==

== In 2020, The New York Times published an exposé detailing Project Veritas' use of spies recruited by Erik Prince, to infiltrate "Democratic congressional campaigns, labor organizations and other groups considered hostile to the Trump agenda".==

- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Veritas

- https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/07/us/politics/erik-prince-p...

Re: Number of journalists in jail reaches global high

#58

Post by xboxnolifes »

chrisseaton wrote: post #46
gampleman wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sadly looking at the map in the OP, the UK is reported as 0 journalists imprisoned. Between Julian Assange and Craig Murray that seems low.

Usual problem - how do you define a journalist and how do you say whether they've been jailed for being a journalist or not.

I'd argue the second part is unnecessary. If country A jails more (percentage) journalists than country B, you know that either country A is trying to control them, or that country A has more criminal journalists. At least that gives you another lead to look into.

Re: Number of journalists in jail reaches global high

#59

Post by trompetenaccoun »

koheripbal wrote: post #52
trompetenaccoun wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The same argument could be made about diplomats. Would you be in favor if abolishing diplomatic immunity? If anything journalists need better protection. Of course they can be criminals, in which case they should be prosecuted. In countries without rule of law authorities can already arrest and imprison journalists for no good reason, so it doesn't make a difference. But in more civilized places, it should be made mo…

This is an apples to oranges comparison. Diplomats are specifically immune because they prevent war. They are certified by the nation sponsoring them. Journalists are usually members of the country they are covering (particularly the ones who are jailed).

Diplomats prevent war apart from the cases where they helped start them of course.

Some may argue that journalism is at least as important as diplomacy, if not more so.

Re: Number of journalists in jail reaches global high

#60

Post by teh_klev »

chrisseaton wrote: post #46
gampleman wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sadly looking at the map in the OP, the UK is reported as 0 journalists imprisoned. Between Julian Assange and Craig Murray that seems low.

Usual problem - how do you define a journalist and how do you say whether they've been jailed for being a journalist or not.

This is the CPJ definition:

"CPJ defines journalists as people who cover the news or comment on public affairs in any media, including print, photographs, radio, television, and online."

I'd say that both Murray and Assange legitimately fit into this definition.

Unfortunately in the UK you're only considered a "journalist" if you can join the cosy boys club that is the NUJ, which is a bit like saying you're not a real train driver unless you're a member of ASLEF which is clearly nonsense.

Post reply on HN