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Apple has a new work-from-home policy, but it’s still not what employees want

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Re: Apple has a new work-from-home policy, but it’s still not what employees want

#71

Post by VLM »

citizenpaul wrote: post #22
siruncledrew wrote: post #18

Google, Amazon, and lots of other companies are in the same stance as Apple. Deep down, I think the issue goes past working flexibility down to a multi-billion dollar financial question of what do these companies do with their real estate assets? They've already built or bought gigantic office buildings and campuses across the US, so what do they do with them? Turn them into warehouses? Just let them sit at Idk what…

I'm sure real estate is part of the equation, though I doubt it really has much to do with the overall push to office. The real reason at the end of the day is sociopath managers/execs. They see work from home as freedom and office as control. I've had C levels tell me straight up they don't care if it is more efficient to work at home. They would rather be able to scream at someone if something is wrong, they would…

I think we'll evolve 'better' sociopaths. Dozens of emergency text messages at 2am, conference calls with 30 people on them only 5 involved in the problem, weird demands for screen sharing, strangely scheduled video conferences for the sake of proving you can force people to attend video conferences...

Bad management will always find a way to be bad.

Re: Apple has a new work-from-home policy, but it’s still not what employees want

#72

Post by progman32 »

Remote work has added more than an hour to my usable, personal time each weekday because I'm no longer commuting. That's ten days over a year. Plus all the time saved in miscellaneous commute-related activities. That's a hard perk to give up. Tempus fugit. Memento mori.

Re: Apple has a new work-from-home policy, but it’s still not what employees want

#73

Post by RandallBrown »

siruncledrew wrote: post #18

Google, Amazon, and lots of other companies are in the same stance as Apple. Deep down, I think the issue goes past working flexibility down to a multi-billion dollar financial question of what do these companies do with their real estate assets? They've already built or bought gigantic office buildings and campuses across the US, so what do they do with them? Turn them into warehouses? Just let them sit at Idk what…

The answer is pretty simple. They won't renew the leases on the offices they're renting and they'll consolidate into the buildings they own. If it's still too much office space they'll sell or just let the workers that are coming in have more space. Years ago I heard stories of Amazon forcing employees to work from home because their offices didn't have enough bathrooms.

Amazon is, as far as I know, allowing people to work from home full time now. That's what their recruiters have been telling me and that's what my friends that work there are saying.

Re: Apple has a new work-from-home policy, but it’s still not what employees want

#74

Post by Supermancho »

izacus wrote: post #30
pkorzeniewski wrote: post #8

It's funny how these big companies try so hard to make their office space as "cool" as possible and think employees enjoy them but the moment they are given the choice to work remotely almost nobody wants to go back to office, at least not on a daily basis..

> ... almost nobody wants to go back to office, at least not on a daily basis.. Last I checked, that's not really true for any of those companies. Where did you pick up the "almost nobody" part?

The number of people showing up to offices that are optionally open are very very low by observation. My regional office houses ~200 cubes, and has an optional attendance of The hq houses about 7000 has at attendance of about > almost nobody wants to go back to office, at least not on a daily basis

Where's the evidence people DO want to go back to the office?

Re: Apple has a new work-from-home policy, but it’s still not what employees want

#75

Post by baq »

s1artibartfast wrote: post #41
Symbiote wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We currently have something very similar to Apple's proposed policy (~2 days in the office per week, several weeks remote work per year). Some like it and will work from home as much as they can, others will come to the office but don't mind the flexibility. What was interesting was comments from an anonymous poll. A couple of people said they didn't like the policy since it meant they ended up caring for young child…

This sounds entirely like a personal relationship problem. Funny to see it come up in a company survey.

No matter what they tell you, it’s a people problem.

Re: Apple has a new work-from-home policy, but it’s still not what employees want

#76

Post by davidf18 »

whywhywhywhy wrote: post #14

Unless you have a very desirable and unique skill set I think it's naive to think you're going to eventually win, they didn't build that gigantic HQ for it to remain empty and the waste of money that is your empty desk in the donut will be pinned on you not sitting at it not them for building it. Not saying I agree with it, but I think this is one area of Apples culture that is going to go against the tide.

The flying saucer HQ was built for the previous era. Ironically, it is Apple equipment which has helped to bring the coming of the new era. Now it is somewhat more decentralized, with Apple locating where the talent wants to live.

Re: Apple has a new work-from-home policy, but it’s still not what employees want

#77

Post by pkorzeniewski »

throwaheyy wrote: post #44
pkorzeniewski wrote: post #8

It's funny how these big companies try so hard to make their office space as "cool" as possible and think employees enjoy them but the moment they are given the choice to work remotely almost nobody wants to go back to office, at least not on a daily basis..

Almost no one? Based on what? Most people where I work are not going in to the office every day, but it cannot be inferred that it is because they don’t want to. The thought of permanent WFH, with your job occupying a corner of your 600 sq ft apartment in perpetuity, is demoralising. Just having the option of a change of scenery, even if one doesn’t make use of it every day or even once in a given week, makes a huge…

Based on common sense - how many people want to waste 1 or 2 hours each day on commute when they could spend it better in so many ways? Or maybe I'm out of touch and people don't value their free time as much as I thought..

Re: Apple has a new work-from-home policy, but it’s still not what employees want

#78

Post by munificent »

treesknees wrote: post #63
pkorzeniewski wrote: post #8

It's funny how these big companies try so hard to make their office space as "cool" as possible and think employees enjoy them but the moment they are given the choice to work remotely almost nobody wants to go back to office, at least not on a daily basis..

One thing that bothered me when I interviewed at Google is how much they talked up the perks. Everything from free shuttle service to free food, to all of these "extracurricular" perks like movies, laundry/drycleaning, hair cuts, etc. The campus felt designed to suck more work hours out of you. If I go play ping pong for an hour, do I now owe that hour to the company later? If I'm working past 5, will I be inclined t…

Googler here. I can speak to my experience, but others have their own.

> The campus felt designed to suck more work hours out of you.

Another way to describe it is that the campus is designed to suck more employees away from the competition. If you assume the existence of an employee as a given, then the only reason for a perk must be to extract more labor from that employee.

But that's not how Google is looking at it. They're trying to convince good employees to work for them instead of other tech companies. Those perks exist to keep the grass greener on Google's side of the fence instead of Facebook/Apple/Amazon/etc.

This provides an entirely rational/economic answer for nice perks without needing overtime to justify them. (There are, of course, also plenty of non-financial justifications for the perks.)

In the Google offices I've worked in, they tend to be almost completely empty by 6:00.

> If I go play ping pong for an hour, do I now owe that hour to the company later?

My experience is that different employees have different feelings about that. Some do, some don't. Personally, I don't feel I owe the company another 30 minutes if I go outside for a walk because the walk tends to reinvigorate me and increase my productivity. But I would probably feel weird if I was playing a game for a significant period of time more than once a week or so.

> If I'm working past 5, will I be inclined to keep working because I can just go grab a free bite to eat later?

Some do, but dinner is extremely low-key compared to lunch. On the rare times I've been around at dinner time, the cafes are mostly empty with just a few partaking.

Re: Apple has a new work-from-home policy, but it’s still not what employees want

#79

Post by Sohcahtoa82 »

nebula8804 wrote: post #36
kroltan wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As is plain to see :P

Speak for yourself. After messing with Windows 11 last night, I cannot fathom how people tolerate that trash. Went back to my M1 Mac.

Funny thing is, I'm the opposite after getting a Mac for work at my current job.

You can't disable pointer acceleration via the Mouse configuration control panel. You have to use some terminal command. Scroll wheel acceleration can't be disabled at all without using 3rd party software.

The Home/End should bring the cursor to the beginning/end of the current line, not the beginning/end of the current document.

Disappearing scroll bars are only a feature on mobile applications where screen real estate is a premium.

And why is there not even an option to ungroup my windows in the Dock? If I have 3 Chrome windows, I want 3 Chrome icons so I can switch between them more quickly. Windows groups by default, but there's at least an option to ungroup them.

Everything about Mac feels like they believe that removing features is a feature.

Re: Apple has a new work-from-home policy, but it’s still not what employees want

#80

Post by zwkrt »

pkorzeniewski wrote: post #77
throwaheyy wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Almost no one? Based on what? Most people where I work are not going in to the office every day, but it cannot be inferred that it is because they don’t want to. The thought of permanent WFH, with your job occupying a corner of your 600 sq ft apartment in perpetuity, is demoralising. Just having the option of a change of scenery, even if one doesn’t make use of it every day or even once in a given week, makes a huge…

Based on common sense - how many people want to waste 1 or 2 hours each day on commute when they could spend it better in so many ways? Or maybe I'm out of touch and people don't value their free time as much as I thought..

Again, this is the thought of people with nice detached houses in the suburbs. Commuting doesn't have to be the horrible pain some people make it out to be. When working for Amazon, I always lived within a 30 minute walk of the office. The walk through Seattle was always beautiful and I looked forward to it each day. I would get a coffee at the same cafe and had relationships with people there. Some days I would leave early and sit in the park for a while. On the way back home I would stop and get dinner or grocieries, often with friends.

WFH reality means that the most pleasant part of my day is destroyed. It takes all the joy of living in the city away.

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