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What happens to used electric car batteries?

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Re: What happens to used electric car batteries?

#71

Post by cogman10 »

jaclaz wrote: post #64
pixl97 wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Today: Most of it gets thrown away and wasted. Tomorrow(ish): We recycle more of it. But your question in many ways is less practical. Statistically cars have lifespans that we can chart out rather well. We can see that we have X tons of old batteries today, and on some tomorrow we'll have X+Y tons of old batteries. Which is important. Industry tends to scale. Working with 100 tons of material may not be an economica…

And - again - this has nothing to do with the question I asked/the issue I was talking about, which is not what happens to batteries, it is about who does the whatever is (considered lawful) supposed to be done with them and how much it will cost me, it remains a VERY practical question. Who (names of the companies) today (not tomorrow, not in ten years time) will pick up my wrecked electric car (and its batteries)?…

Any ICE salvage company will salvage an EV. Why do you think they won't?

So, pull up the phone directory and call any one of those wreckers, ask them if they handle EVs. All of them will say yes.

Re: What happens to used electric car batteries?

#72

Post by fulafel »

catlikesshrimp wrote: post #29

The question in the article title remains unanswered. The long article develops the question, only. As I see it, the batteries will end in landfills, best case. If you can pay for it, they will end in landfills abroad. Nobody who is relevant is serious about this problem because those batteries are still working. Consumers are sold the idea that the situation will improve in the future. Hopefully, I have to add. So m…

> So much for climate change.

Making more cars was never going to solve climate change, EVs still have lifetime co2 footprints of the same magnitude as gas cars plus their use is not capped by available supply of oil.

Re: What happens to used electric car batteries?

#73

Post by bittercynic »

jaclaz wrote: post #33

I see this as very relevant: >In Oklahoma City, the batteries in the SNT warehouse mostly came from cars that are still under warranty, which means the automakers are responsible for them. Tyler Helps, the company’s head of business development, says automakers are paying SNT to keep their old batteries because they don’t know what the used battery market is going to look like and whether the materials inside the bat…

>In a nutshell, you don't want right now to actually own an electric car past its warranty, you'd be better served by long renting or similar

If you can tolerate the risk, a used, out-of-warranty ev can be pretty economical. You'd want to do something to evaluate the condition of the battery, and then accept that there is some probability of a battery failure that will not be worth fixing.

Re: What happens to used electric car batteries?

#74

Post by jcampbell1 »

morsch wrote: post #22
russellbeattie wrote: post #4

We need legislation immediately which requires that all new batteries are designed and made to be disassembled for recycling both easily and cheaply. Do it now, while the industry is ramping up so the costs can be built into the system. Also, every battery that is produced should have a serial number on it. These are not things that can just be dumped in a hole and forgotten. The manufacturer of that battery should b…

Ideal is detergent powder in recycled paper packaging. Or would be, I don't think you can buy it that way.

Those pods are the dumbest invention that consumers have fallen for. Pouring powder from the box works much better for cleaning because you want some washing soda in the pre-wash as well as the main wash. Pour some in the compartment that closes and some on the door, or the little compartment that automatically leaks onto the door. Dishwashing pods are a total scam and they clean dishes less well than pouring powder for 8x the cost and a worse environmental impact.

Re: What happens to used electric car batteries?

#75

Post by jaclaz »

cogman10 wrote: post #71
jaclaz wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And - again - this has nothing to do with the question I asked/the issue I was talking about, which is not what happens to batteries, it is about who does the whatever is (considered lawful) supposed to be done with them and how much it will cost me, it remains a VERY practical question. Who (names of the companies) today (not tomorrow, not in ten years time) will pick up my wrecked electric car (and its batteries)?…

Any ICE salvage company will salvage an EV. Why do you think they won't? So, pull up the phone directory and call any one of those wreckers, ask them if they handle EVs. All of them will say yes.

Maybe this happens in the US.

Here (Italy, but I believe that several EU countries are in this same situation) they won't touch an electric vehicle with a ten foot pole.

They are not authorized to handle or store lithium batteries (that are considered dangerous wastes) and don't have the (safety) qualifications nor tools to handle mid-range voltages.

There are in the making some new EU norms (and investments) related to "circular economy" for the EV batteries:

https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/IP_21_...

but right now they are e-waste, the so-called RAEE/WEEE, and while there is a code 160005 (that is for batteries coming from phones, notebooks, etc.) EV batteries are likely to fall in the 160215 code (which is dangerous parts removed from assemblies).

We are talking (if you can find anyone that will dismantle them) of roughly 4/5 Euro/kg for the disposal fees.

Re: What happens to used electric car batteries?

#76

Post by jaclaz »

andrawesbahou wrote: post #47
russellbeattie wrote: post #4

We need legislation immediately which requires that all new batteries are designed and made to be disassembled for recycling both easily and cheaply. Do it now, while the industry is ramping up so the costs can be built into the system. Also, every battery that is produced should have a serial number on it. These are not things that can just be dumped in a hole and forgotten. The manufacturer of that battery should b…

It's going to be hard to push regulation to specifically make it easier to dissassemble them. However, regulation that makes the manufacturer responsible throughout the life of the battery (and beyond the vehicle's warranty period) should be possible, and would force the manufacturer into designing-for-recycling. Disclaimer: I'm affiliated, as a founder, with a company building robots to disassemble car batteries sem…

Even if this (hopefully) happens, and it happens fast, it might become similar (in EU) to what is now the Law regarding solar panels, see:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13250584

Re: What happens to used electric car batteries?

#77

Post by jaclaz »

yodon wrote: post #65
andrawesbahou wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The $2000USD figure is approximately correct. We've run the numbers to be between $800-3200 depending on the weight of the battery, and how difficult it is to disassemble. 3200 for a 700kg Porsche Tycan battery. (My cofounder and I launched a company to disassemble the batteries robotically, if you're interested in helping us build it, please message me).

As an FYI there's no way to directly message capability here on HN so if you're interested in people being able to reach you you might want to put some form of contact info in your profile.

Yep, though - to be fair - it is not much difficult to find his company's site by searching for the user name, "andrawes bahou"+ "batteries".

Re: What happens to used electric car batteries?

#78

Post by wombatmobile »

catlikesshrimp wrote: post #26
idrisser wrote: post #18

These articles are insane, 10min in until you get to the part of what happens to used batteries. I’m really thinking the media business model is totally broken for these authors to not go straight to the point

It is more opinion than investigative journalism. This is the only information about what actually happens to batteries. It is very imprecise. And limited to one company "When batteries can’t be fixed or reused, the company recycles some at its onsite facility. It also stores batteries. Lots of them. SNT’s main warehouse in Oklahoma City holds hundreds of electric car batteries, stacked on shelves that jut 30 feet in…

> In SNT’s warehouse, bright red emergency water lines snake across the ceilings, a safeguard against calamity.

Are water lines going to be adequate to contain a warehouse full of lithium batteries on fire?

Re: What happens to used electric car batteries?

#79

Post by bradlys »

fho wrote: post #59
beloch wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's long form (although somewhat short for that). Consider yourself lucky that this article even has a descriptive title and gets around to addressing it at some point in the body. A lot of long form journalism is just a click-bait title with rambling. Personally, I think long-form writers need to start including abstracts. If I'm going to spend half an hour reading something, I'd like to know what it's about before…

Haven't read the article ... But I am always taken aback by these "and now we look at the complete life of the guy that did whatever the article is actually about"-detours. When I read an article about about ... fishing in Alaska ... I was btw born in the last millenia and had a pretty normal childhood. But if you dig out school colleagues of mine you will find somebody who will tell you I was a strange kid in school…

More page length - more ads.

Re: What happens to used electric car batteries?

#80

Post by worik »

idrisser wrote: post #18

These articles are insane, 10min in until you get to the part of what happens to used batteries. I’m really thinking the media business model is totally broken for these authors to not go straight to the point

I like it.

Drinking coffee, by the window, in the shade watching the sun in the garden... Take your time!

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