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Oculess – Removes account requirements and telemetry from Oculus Quest devices

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Re: Oculess – Removes account requirements and telemetry from Oculus Quest devices

#71

Post by a-dub »

a-dub wrote: post #59
rhacker wrote: post #15

Facebook keeps asking Congress to make laws. How about this one: Peripherals, including mice, monitors, keyboards, VR headsets or any other device used to process input or output from a computer, may NOT be connected to any cloud service with an account. Any such cloud connections MUST be for software updates only and software updates MUST be capable of permanent opt-out without any loss of usage. I mean I grew up wi…

hmm. it doesn't seem all that different from sony or microsoft subsizing the cost of gaming consoles and then locking down what can run on them so they can recoup those costs by getting a slice of the game sales. nor is it all that different from apple or google dumping millions and millions into ios and android os/base level platform development, software update/delivery infrastructure and proactive platform securit…

plus, shrug it seems that locked down platforms present a nice challenge for young tinkerers to break that can ultimately kindle their interests in technology.

Re: Oculess – Removes account requirements and telemetry from Oculus Quest devices

#72

Post by unsui »

akerl_ wrote: post #54
paranoidrobot wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> just don’t buy their product. That works in theory, but in practice when all the products from all the vendors work that way, you no longer have a choice. Plenty of examples like that - Try buying a TV that's not a "smart" TV nowdays, you basically can't. If you want a good quality picture, then it's also coming with telemetry and in many cases advertisements, too.

This is a VR headset. It’s hardly a basic necessity

yet. That's the whole point of getting in early (to the mass-consumer-market), to make it the standard. It's not a necessity yet, but neither were smartphones (now just called "phones").

FB is banking heavily that VR will become a necessity, to one extent or another. I sincerely hope FB fails, but my suspicion is that it would fail not because FB failed, but rather because VR itself failed (e.g. Google Glass for consumers). Still to be seen.

Re: Oculess – Removes account requirements and telemetry from Oculus Quest devices

#73

Post by Tokelin »

duskwuff wrote: post #29
rhacker wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean I don't see why this couldn't apply cart-blanche to all computers. I don't need to sign into MS, Mac to use the computers (though I do for my mac because of corp. policy). It has been getting harder, but fuck, why not use this opportunity to turn this shit around?

> why not use this opportunity to turn this shit around? Because your proposed legislation would outlaw most IoT devices. This is, in fact, bad.

It would just outlaw the easiest way to insure an IoT device is easily controlled and authenticated.

Re: Oculess – Removes account requirements and telemetry from Oculus Quest devices

#74

Post by akerl_ »

loktarogar wrote: post #55
akerl_ wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is it desirable for Congress to make laws limiting how electronics manufacturers can design their electronics? If Facebook wants to make a VR headset that requires that you upload a monthly video of you doing the chicken dance, just don’t buy their product. Attempting to use government to make private entities build the kinds of technology you like is a pretty heavy hammer to drop on individual freedoms.

If I spend $50,000 on a tractor that also has a cloud component that drives the tractor around for me, is it also not fair to expect that I can use that tractor just as a tractor if I don't have internet access at my farm? It's a different story if it's eg. an Alexa device thats primary purpose is to be connected to the internet. If a device is in a class of product that doesn't necessarily need a cloud connection/ac…

If when you bought the tractor, the tractor company said “this tractor requires that you have internet access and keep the tractor online”, and you bought it, then no, it’s not fair of you to expect to just disregard that.

Now, if you want to take a screwdriver and serial cable to the tractor and hack the crap out it, and you manage to bypass the requirement, have at it. You own the tractor. They can feel free to void your warranty / not give you updates, but you can do whatever you want with your property.

But to buy a device that says “internet connection required” and then be angry when it requires an internet connection doesn’t make sense to me, nor does asking the government to mandate the business model used by tractor (or VR headset) manufacturers.

Re: Oculess – Removes account requirements and telemetry from Oculus Quest devices

#75

Post by malermeister »

akerl_ wrote: post #61
jdc wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about the freedom to use your property, electronic or otherwise, as you see fit?

Oculus isn’t secretive about the cloud account requirement. When you go to buy it, you’re buying it as Facebook chose to build it. And once you have the hardware you own it. But they aren’t required to sell you a device that works the way you wish it did. If the pitch here was that vendors were lying about cloud/connectivity requirements, and we wanted legislation to prevent them from obscuring the truth, I’d be 100%…

Just because they aren't secretive about it doesn't mean it's an okay thing to do. Doing a bad thing out in the open might make it shameless, but it doesn't make it acceptable.

Re: Oculess – Removes account requirements and telemetry from Oculus Quest devices

#76

Post by akerl_ »

bloqs wrote: post #70
akerl_ wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a VR headset. It’s hardly a basic necessity

This was said about phones 10 years ago, and electricity 100 years before that.

I was being flippant in my comment above, but just to be clear: I think regulating business models for cell phones is just as bad an idea.

Electrical service has limitations around things like termination of service / fair pricing / safety, but we don’t mandate how they design their software and servers.

Re: Oculess – Removes account requirements and telemetry from Oculus Quest devices

#77

Post by BoorishBears »

LegitShady wrote: post #69
okwubodu wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Quest is standalone giving it the lowest barrier to entry even without the current PC market being terrible.

standalone VR is pretty garbage running off a phone graphics card. The quest is only interesting where you connect to PCVR, and then its not standalone.

When the average person's personal computing device is barely stronger than that phone graphics card it's pretty good.

Re: Oculess – Removes account requirements and telemetry from Oculus Quest devices

#78

Post by Tokelin »

dylan604 wrote: post #27
rhacker wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean I don't see why this couldn't apply cart-blanche to all computers. I don't need to sign into MS, Mac to use the computers (though I do for my mac because of corp. policy). It has been getting harder, but fuck, why not use this opportunity to turn this shit around?

You do need to sign into MS to use Word, Excel, Outlook, etc.

Why though? Why is that requirement there? Okay, it's nice for me to sync everything and have a seamlessly integrated ecosystem. But what if I have one device and just want to use Word on it and that's it?

Re: Oculess – Removes account requirements and telemetry from Oculus Quest devices

#79

Post by akerl_ »

malermeister wrote: post #75
akerl_ wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oculus isn’t secretive about the cloud account requirement. When you go to buy it, you’re buying it as Facebook chose to build it. And once you have the hardware you own it. But they aren’t required to sell you a device that works the way you wish it did. If the pitch here was that vendors were lying about cloud/connectivity requirements, and we wanted legislation to prevent them from obscuring the truth, I’d be 100%…

Just because they aren't secretive about it doesn't mean it's an okay thing to do. Doing a bad thing out in the open might make it shameless, but it doesn't make it acceptable.

I’m saying it’s not clear to me why it’s a bad thing. It’s clear that you want them to design a different VR headset, but I wish IKEA made a different depth Kallax shelf and yet I’m not looking to make it a legal requirement.

Re: Oculess – Removes account requirements and telemetry from Oculus Quest devices

#80

Post by gremloni »

kova12 wrote: post #40
gremloni wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is this a resonable option? There are two mature ecosystems and really nothing can compare right now.

And how do you think we will be getting third mature ecosystem if we never try anything? Complaining is easy

Yeah the whole chicken and the egg thing. I don’t know but I don’t want to have a hamstrung ecosystem right now
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