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File picker meme

wiki.installgentoo.com

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Re: File picker meme

#72

https://wiki.installgentoo.com/index.php?title=File_Picker_m... Will get you the content without the NSFW go away message.

I know it’s utterly distasteful, but I am fairly amused at the youthful rebellion of defacing a web page in this fashion. Feels very old Internet.

Re: File picker meme

#73
post #2

This "meme" is the core of most useless, destroying DE wars in the Linux community. An example of how such a limited case can fuel beliefs of one desktop being "better" than the other, and the latter being something to continuously joke on. The lack of collaboration between desktops is, in my opinion, at the core of the fragmentation that makes Linux desktops still appear so far from their proprietary counterparts. T…

> An example of how such a limited case can fuel beliefs of one desktop being "better" than the other Disagree completely, if they don't care to add such a relatively basic feature that every other environment has and don't care if their users have a 90s level experience opening documents which users do multiple times a day then why would you expect any of the rest of the system to have any care and attention paid to…

Welcome to Linux on the desktop, where every project has no money and no developers and is decades behind Windows and Mac. It's been like this the entire time I've been using Linux. But somehow, some people still manage to use it and get work done.

Re: File picker meme

#74
post #66
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sometimes collaboration goes nowhere: https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/mutter/-/issues/217

Option A: applications can continue to do what they’ve done for nearly 30 years and rely on system title bars. This will work everywhere — X11 GNOME, KDE, SwayWM, macOS, Windows, BeOS,… except GNOME on Wayland, and it will feel native. Option B: applications can choose between GTK 3/4 (not exactly a fan favorite) and get native looking title bars only on GNOME (without extra work — also only supports an out-of-date s…

>applications can continue to do what they’ve done for nearly 30 years and rely on system title bars. This will work everywhere

This isn't true, some X11 window managers don't draw any title bars.

Anyway this isn't a problem if you link against GTK or libdecor. Yeah it's broken if you're trying to work against the system and do things in the inconsistent way that they were done in X11, so... don't do that?

Re: File picker meme

#75
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sometimes collaboration goes nowhere: https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/mutter/-/issues/217

>Enough spam for today. Locking the issue. Locked as expected. But really? Well-written written arguments from users and developers is considered spam?

>Well-written written arguments from users and developers is considered spam?

Yes. The bug tracker is not a place to have an argument. The correct place for that would be a mailing list.

Re: File picker meme

#76
post #20

Gnome's UI really does suck. Windows File Explorer sucks, too, just not nearly as bad. (Though I'd put it FAR ahead of the Mac's counter-intuitive and ill-named Finder.) It's the 21st century - WHY, OH, WHY do we still have file managers that provide NO CLUE as to the size and number of files in a directory? Why are all presentations still list or grid-based? Why does it take so long to find files? Can't we save the…

I don't see the problem, to be honest. I never really care about how many files are in a directory or how big that directory is when I'm in the "open file" dialog. I just want to find my file quickly.

I have no idea how to efficiently operate Apple's design, but I've never had a problem with the Windows file picker. Same with Gnome, to be honest, except when I'm trying to pick an image file. Out of all the UI options, I don't think the grid or list views are the biggest problem here.

I don't know what kind of view you expect, but even on phones you'll get grids and lists when picking a file. Every application on the desktop as far as I know has a mechanism to remember the last folder opened, but searches are rarely repeated. I think that makes sense because searches are usually for one specific file, and the probability that you want to open the exact same file multiple times in a row is relatively low compared to the probability that you want to open a file from the same folder. Windows Collections and the search folder mechanism do allow you to use such a method of file picking, though, because the virtual folders that every application already supports can be reused and customised to your hearts desire.

As for why it's still a flat overview of files and folders, it's probably performance related. On my machine, I can find pretty much any file by hitting the super key and typing. Gnome Tracker and Windows Search index all the files in my home directory and searching is pretty much instant. On hard drives the searching is slower, but at the same time the indexing barely ever runs because the hard drive is always busy (or the indexer is slowing down the whole system, like on Windows Vista).

Automated collections of images and video files work great in a sandboxes environment but Android's buggy file picker shows what happens with that paradigm in an arbitrary file structure, often missing pictures or listing deleted ones on my device because an app used the wrong API or a database sync is still running in the background. My device isn't even a particularly cheap one, I can't imagine how often people with $100 phones run it to this mess.

Re: File picker meme

#77
post #61

This issue is almost never raised in good faith. Just look at this document. Disingenuous, trolling, contemptuous of the work of FLOSS developers. Then look at the comments in this thread, repeating and escalating the same nastiness. Crap like this contributes to burnout, people leaving the community, etc. Why spend your time on a volunteer effort if you're just going to be abused by non-contributors? There's a reaso…

>Then, consider the priorities of the people contributing to the GNOME and GTK projects

To be fair, this has been the #1 most requested issue in GNOME for quite a few years. Though now it seems to be second behind a blurry text issue.

https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gtk/-/issues?sort=popularity

>This issue is almost never raised in good faith.

I have no idea what you mean by that. This is a big issue that affects a large portion of users. Nobody is just pretending they need to see thumbnails for some nefarious purpose.

Re: File picker meme

#78
post #32

At least we don't have to see ads.

I have never seen an ad in Windows, period. (And for that matter, I've never changed any setting to achieve that. Perhaps this is because as a Surface user, I get Win10 Pro installed by default?) By the way, try using a pen or touch as a meaningfully usable interface on Linux (or Mac)... I'll never buy another computer that doesn't support both rich pen and touch - THAT'S a UI improvement that has changed my life, an…

I see ads on Windows constantly, usually for Microsoft Edge and Bing, but every install always comes with a link to Candy Crush as far as I've seen.

Maybe Microsoft dialed back the ads on the Surface, but on other platforms Windows is full of dark patterns to advertise Microsoft's own software. Just recently I've had to give admin permission to my computer to dismiss a warning from Windows Defender that I'm not signed into OneDrive.

I can't say I see the same value in the strong points of the Surface you see, but I have to admit that it's a shame how little good competition there is to the Surface line in terms of convertibles. Apple could easily outcompete Microsoft by providing a professional version of the iPad Pro that runs normal applications, but their desire for simplifying and locking down general purpose computers seems to prevent them from doing so. Other manufacturers like Dell and Lenovo simply don't seem to put out the same quality of hardware.

Re: File picker meme

#79
post #77
post #61

This issue is almost never raised in good faith. Just look at this document. Disingenuous, trolling, contemptuous of the work of FLOSS developers. Then look at the comments in this thread, repeating and escalating the same nastiness. Crap like this contributes to burnout, people leaving the community, etc. Why spend your time on a volunteer effort if you're just going to be abused by non-contributors? There's a reaso…

>Then, consider the priorities of the people contributing to the GNOME and GTK projects To be fair, this has been the #1 most requested issue in GNOME for quite a few years. Though now it seems to be second behind a blurry text issue. https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gtk/-/issues?sort=popularity >This issue is almost never raised in good faith. I have no idea what you mean by that. This is a big issue that affects a la…

Votes in a bug tracker don't represent the priorities of developers or even a representative audience of users. Yes, it's a known issue, but there are trade-offs and a lot of work involved. Most people just aren't aware of the complexity involved in file chooser implementations and APIs.

The file chooser issue is more often raised in the context of internet abuse than good faith user requests. That doesn't mean it's not real, it just means it's fodder for precisely the kind of document we're responding to.

Re: File picker meme

#80
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Option A: applications can continue to do what they’ve done for nearly 30 years and rely on system title bars. This will work everywhere — X11 GNOME, KDE, SwayWM, macOS, Windows, BeOS,… except GNOME on Wayland, and it will feel native. Option B: applications can choose between GTK 3/4 (not exactly a fan favorite) and get native looking title bars only on GNOME (without extra work — also only supports an out-of-date s…

>applications can continue to do what they’ve done for nearly 30 years and rely on system title bars. This will work everywhere This isn't true, some X11 window managers don't draw any title bars. Anyway this isn't a problem if you link against GTK or libdecor. Yeah it's broken if you're trying to work against the system and do things in the inconsistent way that they were done in X11, so... don't do that?

Does libdecor even support XDG Decoration? If not, no thanks. Sorry, but if you create a brand new problem for us to all deal with I expect you to have a solution too. If it looks or feels non-native on KDE it’s still broken…

And telling me all Linux apps they should link against GTK would make me angry if it wasn’t so stupid.

P.S. edit: I’d just to like to add:

- Please don’t take my harsh tone too personally. I’m not pissed off at people, I am pissed off at their initiatives sometimes though. I don’t really harbor any ill will towards individual developers. I think if you make decisions that impact an ecosystem it’s only natural that strong emotions will emerge.

- The main reason why GNOME solutions are not really landing that well is specifically because they are attacking the problem more from GNOME’s philosophical standpoint than from the standpoint of what is best for applications. KDE does not appear to be embodying the CSD initiative, which is actually Good for GNOME users, since KDE apps will likely feel a ton more native in GNOME as a result. Certainly more than GNOME apps do in KDE… but it also means that libdecor is kind of moot, because what we as app developers really want is one solution that gives us fully native basic window borders everywhere. And to do that, we need a solution that starts from the common ground (xdg-decoration) then goes into special cases (GNOME, Weston, etc.)

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