Video of Tesla FSD almost hitting pedestrian receives DMCA takedown • Hacker News Board

Re: Video of Tesla FSD almost hitting pedestrian receives DMCA takedown

#71

Post by mwint » Fri, Sep 17, 2021, 4:06 PM UTC

kbenson wrote: post #55

stagger87 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It makes more sense when you realize the car wasn't even supposed to be turning. Look at the nav screen. If this guy didn't take over, where exactly was the car going? I think it's very easy to speculate it wouldn't have ended well.

It looks like it re-routed down the side street at exactly that moment. You can see the projected path line shift to that street immediately before. It doesn't look like it would have hit anyone to me (it was only partway through turning, so was facing people when it or he aborted it, but that's not the path shown on the display), but it was definitely an illegal move.

Step through the video frame by frame; you can see the car begin turning back to the left before the driver takes over. He actually stopped the left turn; the car would have recovered quicker without his actions.

Not that the driver was wrong to do what he did; we have the advantage of frame-by-frame replay. But the frame-by-frame does show that this is not what it appears at first glance.

Re: Video of Tesla FSD almost hitting pedestrian receives DMCA takedown

#72

Post by Jyaif » Fri, Sep 17, 2021, 4:07 PM UTC

Not to pile on Tesla, but a yoke driving wheel will make taking over the FSD mode much harder.

Re: Video of Tesla FSD almost hitting pedestrian receives DMCA takedown

#73

Post by mzs » Fri, Sep 17, 2021, 4:07 PM UTC

josefresco wrote: post #30

"almost hitting pedestrian" It wasn't even close. Look at where the ped is at 12 seconds, compared to the car. It's because he stopped the turn, and straightened the vehicle that the pedestrian stopped and looked up with concern (at 13 seconds). Even if the pedestrian broke out into a full run, they wouldn't have been in any real danger. This sort of close interplay between pedestrians and cars is very common in citi…

You must yield to pedestrian in crosswalk, how far away the pedestrian is does not matter.

Re: Video of Tesla FSD almost hitting pedestrian receives DMCA takedown

#74

Post by jjj3j3j3j3 » Fri, Sep 17, 2021, 4:09 PM UTC

This reminds me how film/music industry tried to DMCA youtube-dl project.

Re: Video of Tesla FSD almost hitting pedestrian receives DMCA takedown

#75

Post by andreyk » Fri, Sep 17, 2021, 4:10 PM UTC

ChrisKnott wrote: post #63

Maximise the video and watch the left hand HUD pane from 0:10 to 0:11. The dotted black line coming from the front of the car (which I am assuming is the intended route) quickly snaps from straight ahead, to a hair pin right, to a normal right turn. Ignoring the fact that the right turn happened to be into a pedestrian crossing with people on it - what was the car even trying to do? The sat-nav shows it should have j…

Good catch! That's definitely quite concerning...

Re: Video of Tesla FSD almost hitting pedestrian receives DMCA takedown

#76

Post by emn13 » Fri, Sep 17, 2021, 4:11 PM UTC

pjc50 wrote: post #47

comeonseriously wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly! What the heck spooked the "AI"?

Some of the discourse suggested that previously it had had problems with the pillars for the monorail running down the median, and the owner/driver was trying it again to see if it had improved. One of the big limits of this kind of AI is that it does not provide human-legible explanations for its actions. You cannot put it in front of a tribunal.

Actually, all kinds of data pertaining to the decision making process is recorded (at least for some of Tesla's competitors, not sure about Tesla), and in great detail. The data is specifically designed to make the AI driver "debuggable", i.e. it includes all kinds of details, intermediate representations, etc that an engineer would need to improve a poor decision, and thus certainly to understand a poor decision.

Whether that kind of logging is always on or was specifically on here, I don't know, but I'd expect Tesla can analyze why this happened: the car does have the ability to explain itself; it's just that owners and drivers do not have access to that explanation.

Re: Video of Tesla FSD almost hitting pedestrian receives DMCA takedown

#77

Post by taneq » Fri, Sep 17, 2021, 4:11 PM UTC

ChrisKnott wrote: post #63

Maximise the video and watch the left hand HUD pane from 0:10 to 0:11. The dotted black line coming from the front of the car (which I am assuming is the intended route) quickly snaps from straight ahead, to a hair pin right, to a normal right turn. Ignoring the fact that the right turn happened to be into a pedestrian crossing with people on it - what was the car even trying to do? The sat-nav shows it should have j…

On the one hand I applaud Tesla for being so open about what their system is thinking with their visualisations. That could be interpreted to show a deep belief in their system's capabilities.

On the other hand, it's always terrified me how jittery any version of AutoPilot's perception of the world is. Would you let your car be driven by someone with zero object permanence, 10/20 vision and only a vague idea of the existence or properties of any object other than lane markings and number plates?

Re: Video of Tesla FSD almost hitting pedestrian receives DMCA takedown

#78

Post by ballenf » Fri, Sep 17, 2021, 4:13 PM UTC

ra7 wrote: post #44

Interestingly, the original creator of the video has since made it private. FSD beta testers are carefully handpicked — a lot of the Tesla “influencers” are given access for some free marketing. I wonder how many FSD bad driving videos are not uploaded to YouTube at all because they don’t want to say anything negative about Tesla and possibly lose influence/ad revenue. This is on top of Tesla classifying FSD as level…

Do you know if the terms of those arrangements give Tesla copyright ownership of the videos? Just wondering whether the driver or Tesla issued the DMCA.

Re: Video of Tesla FSD almost hitting pedestrian receives DMCA takedown

#79

Post by aidenn0 » Fri, Sep 17, 2021, 4:14 PM UTC

parineum wrote: post #64

paxys wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Almost hitting is an exaggeration, but making a right turn while pedestrians have started crossing at an intersection is a 100% incorrect (and likely illegal) action. It's concerning to me that the "full self driving" car cannot successfully handle this very common everyday occurrence.

That's definitely illegal and definitely happens all the time. Except it usually happens when the pedestrian has already passed the area where you'd turn through or the intersection is enormous and the pedestrian just started crossing the other side. I'd expect FSD to follow the law in this case though.

Going behind pedestrians in a crosswalk is legal in many states. It's universal that you must yield to pedestrians in a crosswalk, but not universal that you must wait for them to clear the crosswalk.

Re: Video of Tesla FSD almost hitting pedestrian receives DMCA takedown

#80

Post by mzs » Fri, Sep 17, 2021, 4:14 PM UTC

partido3619463 wrote: post #23

Is the car turning right (after a no right turn sign) while it was supposed to be going straight according to nav?

I did not see a no right turn sign.

ed: modeless 1 hour ago

>That sign applies only to the lanes to the left of the pillars. It is legal to turn right there from the right lane. I've done it myself. Yes, it is confusing.