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The Case for Optimism

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Re: The Case for Optimism

#71

Post by lamontcg »

danans wrote: post #58

> Today’s widespread middle class living standard is the result of several one-time events for the planet, such as mass migration into cities, the movement of women into the formal working economy, and pervasive automation of labor. He forgot a big one: Massive use of fossil fuels, whose long term effects are, depending on where you live, threatening to undermine that very standard of living. The challenge of this ge…

Solar and Wind beat fossil fuels now.

There's no need to compromise on standards of living, that's a toxic and false narrative that we need to suffer in order to fix things.

Re: The Case for Optimism

#72

Post by b7bfcdeaab33 »

danans wrote: post #58

> Today’s widespread middle class living standard is the result of several one-time events for the planet, such as mass migration into cities, the movement of women into the formal working economy, and pervasive automation of labor. He forgot a big one: Massive use of fossil fuels, whose long term effects are, depending on where you live, threatening to undermine that very standard of living. The challenge of this ge…

> trying to figure out how to improve and that standard

I don't understand what you're saying.

Re: The Case for Optimism

#73

Post by DangitBobby »

richspuller wrote: post #37
DangitBobby wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you for writing all of this. I think undying optimism was okay when you really couldn't do that much harm with your terrible decisions based on false optimism. That's no longer the case. I also think, practically speaking, unfounded optimism will be the reason we fail to address Climate Change. It's time for realism now.

Optimism and realism should go hand in hand. Proper optimism is not about dismissing the fact that real problems do exist, and are very serious, but in the realization that we are equipped and able to find solutions and implement them. Climate change for example, there is so much going on in the Green Tech sector, innovations and companies emerging everywhere to take steps toward solving this. Sadly, mainstream media…

I think that interpretation circularly defines optimism to always be the correct viewpoint.

Re: The Case for Optimism

#74

Post by mjklin »

dbish wrote: post #4

We do need optimists if we are going to dream and build a great future. Techno-optimism has become almost a taboo, sometimes even within the groups that actually work on cutting edge tech (at least on the computing side of things). We shouldn’t be naive and ignore potential negatives of course, but more optimism and dreaming of a great future we can build towards should be encouraged.

“And yet,” demanded Councillor Barlow …”what great cause is he identified with?”

“He is identified,” said the speaker, “with the great cause of cheering us all up.”

—Arnold Bennett, English (1867-1931)

Re: The Case for Optimism

#75

Post by joelbluminator »

TchoBeer wrote: post #52
joelbluminator wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> should you just quit everything and do heroin all day? You would feel really happy. No he wouldn't. He would become addicted very fast and eventually live on the streets, Heroin addicts are as miserable as can be. If there was an actual happy pill that worked I don't see why we shouldn't take it, there isn't one.

>If there was an actual happy pill that worked I don't see why we shouldn't take it Like the Soma from Brave New World. When I reread that book last year I realized how useful and good that drug would be.

I really tried reading it few months ago. The English was too much for me, its ancient or something. I had to fight with every sentence. Too bad.

Re: The Case for Optimism

#76

Post by somewhereoutth »

lamontcg wrote: post #71
danans wrote: post #58

> Today’s widespread middle class living standard is the result of several one-time events for the planet, such as mass migration into cities, the movement of women into the formal working economy, and pervasive automation of labor. He forgot a big one: Massive use of fossil fuels, whose long term effects are, depending on where you live, threatening to undermine that very standard of living. The challenge of this ge…

Solar and Wind beat fossil fuels now. There's no need to compromise on standards of living, that's a toxic and false narrative that we need to suffer in order to fix things.

Oh indeed. We just need to send a large majority of the human race back to the stone age.

The entirety of South America, Africa, the Indian sub continent, most of South East Asia and the Middle East.

Then you can have your SUV.

Re: The Case for Optimism

#77

Post by somewhereoutth »

Given our response to Covid, I'm can't say that I'm optimistic.

It is notable that HN, supposedly a meeting place for the scientifically and technically enlightend, has kept very quiet on the issue of Covid - apart from the occasional Ivermectin nonsense and similar of course.

No, I'm not optimistic, not at all.

Re: The Case for Optimism

#78

Post by toss1 »

ABCLAW wrote: post #63
toss1 wrote: post #2

I love optimism, and have often been accused of adhering to it myself. To some extent, it is a requirement for civilization and even life, the basis of hope. But I've observed from decades ago that when we look at progress in science and technology, the future looks unimaginably bright, but when we look at politics and governance, it is incredibly dark. This contrast became massively magnified since 2015. Yet, even w…

>But I've observed from decades ago that when we look at progress in science and technology, the future looks unimaginably bright, but when we look at politics and governance, it is incredibly dark. I don't really see these as particularly different things. Our era has seen value financialized at almost every level of society by the deployment of transnational technology and institutions, resulting in the inability o…

yup. There was optimism aplenty when the internet was first growing, with the idea that it would democratize information, and pretty much everything.

Yet here we are with a few mega-corps basically eating the whole pie, working as fast as they can to destroy the open internet in favor of their walled gardens, and curating every shred of content and amplifying it based on 'engagement', which is roughly inversely correlated with truth value, moral compass, or societal value (what ordinary publishers generally curate for). The net effect is highly corrosive to governance and society without even accounting for their amplification of intentional dezinformatsiya as part of active measures warfare.

As you said, we need to create things that tip the balance towards democracy and the have-nots.

Re: The Case for Optimism

#79

Post by lonelyPM »

lamontcg wrote: post #71
danans wrote: post #58

> Today’s widespread middle class living standard is the result of several one-time events for the planet, such as mass migration into cities, the movement of women into the formal working economy, and pervasive automation of labor. He forgot a big one: Massive use of fossil fuels, whose long term effects are, depending on where you live, threatening to undermine that very standard of living. The challenge of this ge…

Solar and Wind beat fossil fuels now. There's no need to compromise on standards of living, that's a toxic and false narrative that we need to suffer in order to fix things.

Nuclear.

Re: The Case for Optimism

#80

Post by SerLava »

danans wrote: post #58

> Today’s widespread middle class living standard is the result of several one-time events for the planet, such as mass migration into cities, the movement of women into the formal working economy, and pervasive automation of labor. He forgot a big one: Massive use of fossil fuels, whose long term effects are, depending on where you live, threatening to undermine that very standard of living. The challenge of this ge…

He also forgot to mention the looming threat of violent revolution exterminating the ruling class, which drove countless concessions to the average person.
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