How do vaccinated people spread Delta? What the science says • Hacker News Board

Re: How do vaccinated people spread Delta? What the science says

#71

Post by fho » Fri, Aug 13, 2021, 10:06 AM UTC

walterbell wrote: post #59

drno123 wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you for the clear explanation. Here in Europe we have Covid passports - if you are vaccinated or tested negative, you are allowed admission to, for example, shopping malls and no need to wear a mask indoors. Does this mean that Covid passports actually help spread Covid from vaccinated to non-vaccinated people who mix together without masks?

Statistically most people, vaccinated or non-vaccinated, are not infected. Once infected, both vaccinated or non-vaccinated can transmit if there is sufficiently high viral load. Normally, a high viral load causes symptoms that would cause someone to self-isolate or fail a temperature check, reducing transmission. Because a vaccinated person can be infected without symptoms, there may be some cases where they should…

Doesn't that also mean that vaccinated people somewhat benefit from being infected? Shouldn't they develop natural immunity from that?

Re: How do vaccinated people spread Delta? What the science says

#72

Post by dalu » Fri, Aug 13, 2021, 10:25 AM UTC

skocznymroczny wrote: post #69

Tepix wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Luckily in Germany masks are still mandatory indoors. Also Istael has reinstated the indoor mask requirement after the number of infections increased dramatically even with many vaccinated people

Why luckily? There's limited proof of any efficiency of masks.

Please don't spread disinformation

Re: How do vaccinated people spread Delta? What the science says

#73

Post by adrianN » Fri, Aug 13, 2021, 10:31 AM UTC

skocznymroczny wrote: post #69

Tepix wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Luckily in Germany masks are still mandatory indoors. Also Istael has reinstated the indoor mask requirement after the number of infections increased dramatically even with many vaccinated people

Why luckily? There's limited proof of any efficiency of masks.

Is there solid data that shows no efficiency? Masks are fairly cheap, if they help even a little they're worthwhile.

Re: How do vaccinated people spread Delta? What the science says

#74

Post by koheripbal » Fri, Aug 13, 2021, 11:23 AM UTC

nanis wrote: post #2

> vaccinated people who become infected with Delta SARS-CoV-2 can carry as much virus in their nose as do unvaccinated people. This means that despite the protection offered by vaccines, a proportion of vaccinated people can pass on Delta, possibly aiding its rise. Which seems in line with I had speculated about earlier[1]. [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28003932

No, because this is a biased sample set. It is comparing vaccinated people and unvaccinated people who have been admitted to the hospital.

The vast majority of vaccinated people who get sick, do not get sick enough to go to the hospital.

Re: How do vaccinated people spread Delta? What the science says

#75

Post by totony » Fri, Aug 13, 2021, 1:36 PM UTC

Uberphallus wrote: post #58

rdtwo wrote: post #4

Vaccine passports are dumb for this reason. Somebody choosing to be at higher risk does not increase the risk to other other than clogging up hospital resources

> Somebody choosing to be at higher risk does not increase the risk to other other than clogging up hospital resources So it doesn't have an impact except for when it does?

Do you have a "obese passport", "health score"? You can't use a logic only when it's convenient. Implementing a health score and precenting unhealthy people (or even old people) from going outside would alievate hospital use. Do we want that?

Although the vaccine seems to somewhat lessen the chance of transmission, it IMO is not enough to stomp on people's freedom. I would maybe consider it if it was the black plague.

Re: How do vaccinated people spread Delta? What the science says

#76

Post by rsynnott » Fri, Aug 13, 2021, 1:58 PM UTC

drno123 wrote: post #42

walterbell wrote: post #25

Vaccines delivered to the arm deltoid muscle never promised mucosal immunity. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7733922/ > The mucosal immune system is the largest component of the entire immune system, having evolved to provide protection at the main sites of infectious threat: the mucosae. As SARS-CoV-2 initially infects the upper respiratory tract, its first interactions with the immune system must occu…

Thank you for the clear explanation. Here in Europe we have Covid passports - if you are vaccinated or tested negative, you are allowed admission to, for example, shopping malls and no need to wear a mask indoors. Does this mean that Covid passports actually help spread Covid from vaccinated to non-vaccinated people who mix together without masks?

> Here in Europe we have Covid passports - if you are vaccinated or tested negative, you are allowed admission to, for example, shopping malls and no need to wear a mask indoors.

That's a national policy thing; in Ireland, for instance, you can use the covid pass to go to a pub or restaurant, but if you're in an indoors public space you are still required to wear a mask. Same in France and Germany AIUI.

Re: How do vaccinated people spread Delta? What the science says

#77

Post by kaczordon » Fri, Aug 13, 2021, 2:42 PM UTC

otherme123 wrote: post #50

kaczordon wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Looks like against delta the vaccines could have as low as 39% efficacy against preventing symptomatic COVID. https://www.cnbc.com/2021/07/23/delta-variant-pfizer-covid-v...

We keep using percentages as if they had a true meaning. All the values that keep flying around cannot be compared, as they all measure slightly different things. That 39% number (protection against symptoms) wasn't checked at the trials, or at least wasn't reported. In that same article, they state that protection against being hospitalized/ICUed is still around 90%, which are the same values we heard before. Guess…

It absolutely was reported and tested for, please don’t spread misinformation.

Re: How do vaccinated people spread Delta? What the science says

#78

Post by ViViDboarder » Fri, Aug 13, 2021, 7:03 PM UTC

rdtwo wrote: post #4

Vaccine passports are dumb for this reason. Somebody choosing to be at higher risk does not increase the risk to other other than clogging up hospital resources

> other than clogging up hospital resources

Which is significant.

Also, most of these polices were created based on research prior to Delta becoming prevalent which showed that the vaccines indeed did reduce spread. Since Delta is more transmissible, this benefit is reduced.

Re: How do vaccinated people spread Delta? What the science says

#79

Post by otherme123 » Fri, Aug 13, 2021, 9:23 PM UTC

kaczordon wrote: post #77

otherme123 wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We keep using percentages as if they had a true meaning. All the values that keep flying around cannot be compared, as they all measure slightly different things. That 39% number (protection against symptoms) wasn't checked at the trials, or at least wasn't reported. In that same article, they state that protection against being hospitalized/ICUed is still around 90%, which are the same values we heard before. Guess…

It absolutely was reported and tested for, please don’t spread misinformation.

If that is the case, it has absolutely nothing to do with the reported "around 90% effectivity" that was in the headlines for the four main vaccines.

Saying that delta diminishes the effectivity from over 90% to 39% is spreading misinformation. Implying it, as the above linked article does, is spreading misinformation, knowing that lots of people doesn't read beyond the headline. Vaccines are still more than 90% effective against delta variant, or any other variant so far.

The 39% above only means that vaccinated people has "only" that protection against being infected (that is, being positive on a PCR test). Even if you are asymtomatic you are counted as infected, thus the vaccine alegedly didn't protect you. But vaccinated people still has around 90% protection against being hospitalized, even in delta variant environments.

The only conclusion we can get is: herd immunity is still far. Get vaxxed ASAP, because this thing will keep spreading.

Re: How do vaccinated people spread Delta? What the science says

#80

Post by kaczordon » Fri, Aug 13, 2021, 10:36 PM UTC

otherme123 wrote: post #79

kaczordon wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It absolutely was reported and tested for, please don’t spread misinformation.

If that is the case, it has absolutely nothing to do with the reported "around 90% effectivity" that was in the headlines for the four main vaccines. Saying that delta diminishes the effectivity from over 90% to 39% is spreading misinformation. Implying it, as the above linked article does, is spreading misinformation, knowing that lots of people doesn't read beyond the headline. Vaccines are still more than 90% effe…

Even if you are asymtomatic you are counted as infected

Incorrect the vaccine trials only tested for symptomatic COVID not asymptomatic, so your assertion here is wrong. The 39% number is for symptomatic COVID only.

Also if you read my original comment you’ll see I only refer to symptomatic COVID and not to death or hospitalizations, perhaps you should read more closely before blindly accusing me of being misleading.