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Wealth Shown to Scale

mkorostoff.github.io

71–80 of 147 posts

Re: Wealth Shown to Scale

#71
post #67
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're hypothesizing that he might want to spend 180 billion dollars in a single day ? If you don't assume that it makes no sense to assume he'd want to liquidate it all at once. Liquidity != wealth Illiquid wealth != unreal wealth. It's really odd how many people seem to have been led to believe it is equivalent though... I'm curious to know where they all picked up this misconception.

I mean that is broadly how we come to compare wealth, we don't spend much time going into the weeds of how that number came into being and what assumptions were made there. So I'm not surprised that some people think that of money. That being said he has gone through a divorce, he did lose a good chunk of his assets pretty quickly. Sure it was just a reallocation of assets, but unless you specifically want all of tha…

>we don't spend much time going into the weeds of how that number came into being

Because number of shares owned x current market price on an actively traded public corporation just isn't all that complicated. Where are the weeds?

Using $ as a measure of wealth whether liquid or not is absolutely normal in all sorts of contexts. I struggle to see why anyone would object

>absorb all that wealth instantly.

I asked before why anybody would want to spend $180 billion in a single day. You seem to have tacitly assumed that he would but I'm uncertain why. Or, alternatively, why this unreal hypothetical matters in this context.

Bill Gates is in the slow process of liquidating his entire MSFT fortune and spending it/rebalancing it, proving that being rich on that level is no impediment to actually using your wealth. Bezos is doing the same with a billion sold here and there to build rockets too. Where are the weeds?

Re: Wealth Shown to Scale

#72
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is absolutely it. Any taxes on just the ultra wealthy raise so little money for the rest of the population that any large scale money raising requires taxes on doctors, lawyers, engineers, small business owners, etc. Pro-government spending advocates don’t like to emphasize this because people become a lot less supportive of these things when they see members of their own community getting hit.

It would certainly help if the ultra wealthy and global corporations would just pay their fair share rather than use possible combination of barely-legal structures to avoid being taxed, bribe officials to create special exemptions, offload money to tax heavens and scare-monger about losing jobs whenever an actual tax increase is due. The USA cannot even properly finance the IRS to go after the super wealthy tax chea…

The top 10% are paying over 71% of income taxes in the US. Who are you to say what their "fair share" is?

Re: Wealth Shown to Scale

#73
post #70

I can think of no better illustration of the inequality in our society than this: the poor and middle class drink £5 bottles of wine purchased from Aldi, while the rich drink £50,000 bottles of wine. It’s truly shocking.

I work in super wealthy people's homes mostly Procter & Gamble executives general electric executives a few celebrities. We're working on this wine cellar right now for a inventor of some wood glue called gorilla I think they also make cell phone glass, 5000 wine bottles. To start with the wine cellar and the deck above it cost about a million when the wine company came in the start filling the racks I couldn't afford one bottle. This project went on about 6 months too long but the homeowner didn't care. She got billed about $100,000 a month for work that should have been completed about 7 months earlier 100% knows this doesn't care. I'm fairly certain they just want to show their friends that they're having worked done to their house so they pay us to stand around and fix the tiniest little inconsistency/blemish. This is basically normal these days.

Another project I worked on in high school I'm still working on today and that was 20 years ago we built one of the largest homes in America in phases to hide the cost it's in Dayton Ohio and it's probably the most luxurious property ever conceived of it's basically a preppers billion dollar project complete with its own power plant that's an old train a lake that's climate controlled with rare species in it that also includes full-time marine biologist.

When Carl lindner built the Great American insurance Tower in Cincinnati the entire building was designed around his personal office and the view into the reds stadium so that he could see his team play they literally built the building around his office view.

You want stories of extravagance relating to personal construction with these people I got the stories we painted Carl linder Jr house once outside red white and blue just for a one weekend event involving George w bush. It was a 35,000 ft house took us a month and then took us another month to turn it back.

When Jessica Simpson was married to Nick lachey I worked in their home Jessica basically expected everyone to do everything for her not only was I construction crew I had to pick up her dirty clothes too. This is the normal behavior I have to deal with.

It's kind of rare but I worked in this Uber Democrats house a few years ago her basement was filled with fresh boxes that weighed like 50 pounds a piece and I had to move about a hundred of them I got real curious and opened up a box they were all filled with Michelle Obama books I estimated there is about 120,000 "becoming it Michelle Obama" books. ever wonder why Michelle Obama sold so many books? it's because about 20 people bought 100,000 a piece.

Re: Wealth Shown to Scale

#74
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would certainly help if the ultra wealthy and global corporations would just pay their fair share rather than use possible combination of barely-legal structures to avoid being taxed, bribe officials to create special exemptions, offload money to tax heavens and scare-monger about losing jobs whenever an actual tax increase is due. The USA cannot even properly finance the IRS to go after the super wealthy tax chea…

The top 10% are paying over 71% of income taxes in the US. Who are you to say what their "fair share" is?

No, The whole point is that 71% is not fair, it should be closer to 95%...

Re: Wealth Shown to Scale

#75
While I love the UX of this site and how well executed it is, I think it’s spreading misconceptions about how the world works.

Human behavior is driven by contagious imitation (monkey-see monkey-do), and we all pile into the same behaviors at the same time, so this inequality will always exist. No matter how equitable the system.

Of all the content on the internet, 1% of it gets 99% of the traffic. Of all the movies on Netflix, 1% get 99% of the eyeballs. Of all the businesses on earth, 1% get 99% of the customers. Of all the stocks in the stock market, a tiny percentage generate ALL of the returns. I could go on and on.

Fundamentally, value-creation in a connected world results in an exponential (log) function, not a linear one.

And people’s brains turn to mush when trying to comprehend exponential vs. linear growth.

You can look at similar wealth curves in the supposedly more equitable nordics to see how similar they are if scaled up to a population the size of the US. On an exponential curve, extending the x-axis 100X further results in equally extreme outcomes like Jeff Bezos.

Basically, everything humans do results in extreme inequality.

So while we should certainly raise taxes on the mega-rich, the goal shouldn’t be eliminating exponential inequality altogether. Because it’s a base property of humanity.

Re: Wealth Shown to Scale

#76
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Europeans were very fond of killing each other in the first half of 20th century for the profit of the richest industrialists. Divide, agitate, conquer, reap the profits.

War is a Racket https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_Is_a_Racket

Well, that is what happens with a positive time preference. Being wealthy today is better than being wealthy tomorrow.

If you were to sit down and think about how war creates wealth you would at first think that it can't because it costs money to go to war and pillaging ruins the source of the spoils.

However, the urgency of money (interest on debt) creates a desire to have it earlier than later. If you can pay your debts back sooner you avoid paying interest. Therefore it is in your best interest to overharvest your farms, overfish the waters, overgraze the field, exploit your workers and pillage the village. Of course, the same applies to the lender. He wants to earn as much money as possible so he must obtain it as early as possible so that his interest compounds.

Of course in practice inflation puts a damper on that form of extortion and causes the time preference to shift negative. If your money is losing 50% of its value in 20 years you'd accumulate as little as possible and would rather receive money in the future because the amount of value you produce hasn't decreased which means you get twice as much coin in the future to represent the same amount of value.

Re: Wealth Shown to Scale

#77

I'm learning economic concepts so some of my notions and questions end up being naive. Would appreciate if someone could clarify/answer this. It's a fair guess that vast majority of Bezos's wealth is in Amazon equities. Which are valued as such by the participants in US equity market. A thought exercise, what would happen if he were to liquidate all of that $180+B in equities? Safe to say he will get less than $180B…

> So it seems to me that not all of his wealth is usable Bezos is the richest, so we don't have examples quite at that scale. That said, we have some pretty big (eg gates, buffet) announcing liquidation & donation without anything bad happening. So, he probably could sell his amazon shares and do something else with them. You are approaching some "it's complicated" questions that occur at scale though. It's true, for…

Thank you for a detailed and informative response.

> ....only has so many builders, roofers, cement shops, cranes... only so much capacity to produce houses....only so much labour, materials, capacity to produce.

IMO the underlying problem to solve is mobilisng this capacity. And the $$ to do so needn't come from rich people. The US anyway has been running budget deficit, there's also this ~$2T infrastructure bill. Some of that money could be used to solve housing/health/education problems and as an added benefit it'll provide jobs to the US citizens. I'm sure this will have 2nd order adverse effects but they I guess they won't be as disruptive.

I am not saying inequality is a problem; but taxing rich doesn't seem to solve it. It will lead to endless debate and lost time. It will take the focus away from the underling problems which is rotting basic human needs -- food/health/housing/education. The government should address underlying causes that lead to inequality and spend on infrastructure in a big way.

Re: Wealth Shown to Scale

#78
post #19

The rich aren't the enemy, rent-seekers are. They may overlap, and Bezos may be both, but wealth and capital on their own are orthogonal to justice. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EHKZRLcW4AA1aju?format=jpg&name=...

I agree, Amazon isn't a public good. There is no way that Jeff Bezos owning Amazon shares makes me worse off. Land is a public good. We have to compete for it but that doesn't mean private individuals should get a cut of the public wealth around the plot of land merely by owning it. It only makes sense to tax it or to turn it over to public ownership (the transition would obviously take decades).

> There is no way that Jeff Bezos owning Amazon shares makes me worse off.

They use their market dominance to reduce the income of authors resulting in less choice and lower quality books for you to read, while increasing the price of available books.

They use their vast wealth to buy out or strike deals with competitors, preventing any challenge to their hold on the industry.

As market maker and participant they use their exclusive market data to undercut their own providers resulting in more hoarded wealth for them but a less creative and productive society for all.

They engage in continual astro-turfing which alters public debate away from whatever is really going on and toward what the mega wealthy owners want people to believe.

And much much more.

Re: Wealth Shown to Scale

#79
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would say rhetorically that ex post facto (am i using that right? kind of like caused by definition) taxes on the ultra wealthy that don't achieve that aren't actually taxes that target the ultra wealthy, but rather just marketing. I think Biden has tried get ahead of that issue with his no higher taxes on 400k pledge. We'll wait to see the reality though.

Biden's promise has already morphed into "household's making more than $400,000", not individuals. Suddenly all those dual tech worker couples in Silicon Valley are wealthy!

Dual tech worker couples making more than $400k in Silicon Valley are wealthy, and always have been. There's no suddenly about it.

They aren't ultrawealthy members of the capitalist class, sure. But they are definitely wealthy, and pretending that they aren't is just phenomenally out of touch.

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