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CDC Internal Delta Variant Presentation

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Re: CDC Internal Delta Variant Presentation

#71
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps they don’t want you to contact or question the federal employee that wrote the document.

Where "contact" is a euphemism for "send death threats to"?

I wasn’t thinking that, but I see your point. That is a very real possibility these days.

Re: CDC Internal Delta Variant Presentation

#72
post #37

Stumbled upon some truly cursed knowledge (if it's true, though I fervently hope not). Imagine a followup pandemic not of more Covid but of neurodegenerative disease from this. Not just in the most severe cases. 1. https://twitter.com/fitterhappierAJ/status/14174356332121825... 2. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S096999611...

I think you are conflating two separate issues.

Am I? Level of olfaction impairment and cognitive impairment have tracked together according to some other sources. Again, I'll be glad if this isn't true.

He was most struck by three findings: One, he said, was the frequency with which people who had been exposed to the coronavirus had subsequent problems with memory. About 60 per cent had cognitive impairment, and for 1 in 3, the symptoms were severe.

Second, his findings indicate that the severity of a COVID-19 patient’s illness does not predict cognitive problems. “What puts you at risk of having the cognitive problems is just having been infected, regardless of how badly ill you were,” he said. “You may have had very mild COVID, but if you were infected and you are older, you are at risk of having these issues.”

And, third, losing the ability to smell, which has been commonly reported among COVID-19 patients, is correlated with cognitive troubles. “They track together quite well,” de Erausquin said. “The more severe your lack of smell, the more severe your cognitive impairment.”

https://www.smh.com.au/world/north-america/covid-19-could-le...

Re: CDC Internal Delta Variant Presentation

#73
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> facial recognition software has more trouble Not really though.

sadness. Care to elaborate with a link perhaps?

https://www.facewatch.co.uk/2020/05/11/facewatch-launches-fa...

https://www.sensory.com/finally-a-biometric-solution-that-re...

https://qz.com/1803737/chinas-facial-recognition-tech-can-cr...

Re: CDC Internal Delta Variant Presentation

#74
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you want better filtering, you can always wear a cartridge respirator. They're also much easier to wear correctly -- they're hot, and the sweat on your face creates a seal against the rubber, making it very easy to tell when the seal is or isn't working. I have one that I use when woodworking / sanding / varnishing, and the difference between a respirator and even a good N95 mask is like night and day. You can pul…

> VOCs getting past this N95 mask VOCs getting past a well-fitting N95 mask is working as intended, isn't it? N95 filters particulates only.

There are N95 variants with activated carbon to filter organic compounds.

Re: CDC Internal Delta Variant Presentation

#75
post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, see, this is the kind of attitude that gets people concerned. I'm not aware of any expert or health official who believes that eradicating the pandemic is possible. If you've gotten the impression that our public health response is about reaching some future point where Covid-19 is gone and nobody ever has to worry about it, you're being misled.

It's a common lie like the lie that we just needed to vaccinate to go back to normal - now we are realising this is nothing but a perennial treadmill.

I think it's important not to overcorrect here. The CDC issues all kinds of guidelines: wash your hands after petting a dog, always use a meat thermometer, definitely don't eat eggs with a runny yolk or raw cookie dough. (Less family friendly but more directly on point, they insist on dental dams for STD protection, which is probably even more widely ignored than the dog petting thing.) "Normal" doesn't mean the CDC will stop offering strict guidance on how to keep yourself healthy, it just means that most people feel okay slacking off on the parts that would be too annoying.

Re: CDC Internal Delta Variant Presentation

#76
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The masks most people wear basically only diffuse sneezes and coughs which makes immediate droplet transfer lower. A piece of ordinary cloth on your face does not filter smog, does not prevent any airborne infection droplets from reaching you, essentially only lowers the chance of your cough hitting somebody else. You need an N95 or better to really do anything to protect yourself. Also even if you have a high grade…

If you want better filtering, you can always wear a cartridge respirator. They're also much easier to wear correctly -- they're hot, and the sweat on your face creates a seal against the rubber, making it very easy to tell when the seal is or isn't working. I have one that I use when woodworking / sanding / varnishing, and the difference between a respirator and even a good N95 mask is like night and day. You can pul…

The basic multigas cartridge that comes in the half-mask bundle at Home Depot will happily adsorb VOCs.

I have a 6000 series with bare P100 filters installed, and they certainly cut smells, but that's probably not what they're designed for. Amusingly, throughout this entire pandemic I've only worn it for wildfire smoke-- it appears to be completely impossible for people to understand what I'm saying while I'm wearing it.

Re: CDC Internal Delta Variant Presentation

#77
Slide 20:

>Given increased transmissibility, lower VE, and current vaccine coverage, NPIs needed to reduce transmission of Delta variant

>Masking:

>• Source control 40-60% effective

>• Personal protection 20-30% effective

>NO ADJUSTMENTS FOR OTHER INTERVENTIONS

>• e.g., no distancing, no isolation, no gathering restrictions

I'm... not sure about that? Delta is infecting people who just walk past each other in indoor spaces: https://www.wsj.com/articles/delta-variants-spread-outpaces-...

How can you get to 40-60% effectiveness if you have perfect mask wearing, but leave restaurants and bars open? Even wearing a N95 when going to the grocery store and post office or whatever isn't going to help if you then go to a bar and spend an hour maskless with your 100 closest unmasked friends.

Re: CDC Internal Delta Variant Presentation

#78
Wow these slides are packed with information and accompanying citations - truly a great resource for anyone following the literature regarding COVID-19 and especially the variants of concern.

I need more time to digest this presentation, but there are two important topics that I feel are missing or at least underrepresented:

1) The effectiveness of early outpatient treatment using a combination of existing medicines (antibiotics, corticosteroids, antiplatelet/antithrombotic) [0a] [0b]

2) The risk of vaccine induced immune escape

Regarding 2) The basic idea is that imperfect vaccines may cause selective pressure which further enhances the fitness of highly virulent pathogens. This may be particularly relevant to the widely deployed mRNA vaccines, which induce an immune response that is highly targeted towards the SARS-CoV-2 spike protein.

Here are some peer reviewed publications on the topic, along with a few excerpts [1][2][3][4][5][6]. To be clear, the excerpts I'm providing below do not contradict any of the major points from the presentation. However, I do hope they illustrate that there is another important dimension to discuss when evaluating the evolutionary dynamics of SARS-CoV-2.

Excerpts from [1]:

- "A growing body of evidence suggests that the targets of several human vaccines are evolving"

- "For example, resistance to influenza and herpes-virus drugs emerged within a few years of FDA approval, and resistance to antivirals rapidly arises within human immunodeficiency virus (HIV) and hepatitis C virus (HCV)-infected patients"

- "The best documented example of vaccine resistance evolution occurred in Marek’s disease, a commercially important disease of chickens caused by Marek’s disease virus (Gallid herpesvirus II). There, two generations of vaccines were undermined by viral evolution. Those vaccines prevented disease, but even before the pathogen evolved, they did not prevent viral infection, replication, or transmission. Instead, Marek’s disease virus reached large population sizes even within vaccinated hosts and was able to transmit to new hosts. As a result, the virus was likely able to generate genetic diversity within vaccinated hosts, and vaccine-induced selection was able to act during transmission between hosts. The benefits of prophylaxis were thus missing."

Excerpts from [2]:

- "Here we show experimentally that immunization of chickens against Marek's disease virus enhances the fitness of more virulent strains, making it possible for hyperpathogenic strains to transmit. Immunity elicited by direct vaccination or by maternal vaccination prolongs host survival but does not prevent infection, viral replication or transmission, thus extending the infectious periods of strains otherwise too lethal to persist. Our data show that anti-disease vaccines that do not prevent transmission can create conditions that promote the emergence of pathogen strains that cause more severe disease in unvaccinated hosts."

Excerpts from [3]:

- "The spike protein receptor-binding domain (RBD) of SARS-CoV-2 is the molecular target for many vaccines and antibody-based prophylactics aimed at bringing COVID-19 under control."

- "Such a narrow molecular focus raises the specter of viral immune evasion as a potential failure mode for these biomedical interventions. With the emergence of new strains of SARS-CoV-2 with altered transmissibility and immune evasion potential, a critical question is this: how easily can the virus escape neutralizing antibodies (nAbs) targeting the spike RBD?"

- "Our modeling suggests that SARS-CoV-2 mutants with one or two mildly deleterious mutations are expected to exist in high numbers due to neutral genetic variation, and consequently resistance to vaccines or other prophylactics that rely on one or two antibodies for protection can develop quickly -and repeatedly- under positive selection."

- "Strategies for viral elimination should therefore be diversified across molecular targets and therapeutic modalities"

- "The speed at which nAb resistance develops in the population increases substantially as the number of infected individuals increases, suggesting that complementary strategies to prevent SARS-CoV-2 transmission that exert specific pressure on other proteins (e.g., antiviral prophylactics) or that do not exert a specific selective pressure on the virus (e.g., high-efficiency air filtration, masking, ultraviolet air purification) are key to reducing the risk of immune escape"

Excerpts from [4]:

- "... evidence for vaccine-induced disease evolution is mounting for many diseases ..."

- "... vaccines can reduce parasite fitness by preventing infection, reducing within-host growth, or preventing transmission. These have been shown to have very different evolutionary consequences for parasite virulence evolution"

- "Vaccines which reduce within-host growth rates are predicted to increase virulence"

- "Infection with multiple strains of the same parasite can result from separate infection events of co-circulating strains, or because the parasite has a rapid mutation rate and generates strain diversity through mutation within the host. Biologically, distinctions between ‘types’ of multiple infection matter because they affect the relatedness of the co-infecting parasites and relatedness can influence the optimal virulence strategy for the parasite"

[0a] Pathophysiological Basis and Rationale for Early Outpatient Treatment of SARS-CoV-2 (COVID-19) Infection (2020) https://www.amjmed.com/article/S0002-9343(20)30673-2/fulltex...

[0b] Multifaceted highly targeted sequential multidrug treatment of early ambulatory high-risk SARS-CoV-2 infection (COVID-19) (2020) https://scholarlycommons.henryford.com/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?a...

[1] Why does drug resistance readily evolve but vaccine resistance does not? (2017) https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/pdf/10.1098/rspb.2016...

[2] Imperfect Vaccination Can Enhance the Transmission of Highly Virulent Pathogens (2015) https://journals.plos.org/plosbiology/article?id=10.1371%2Fj...

[3] Risk of rapid evolutionary escape from biomedical interventions targeting SARS-CoV-2 spike protein (April 2021) https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33909660/

[4] The adaptive evolution of virulence: a review of theoretical predictions and empirical tests (2015) https://www.cambridge.org/core/services/aop-cambridge-core/c...

[5] The phylogenomics of evolving virus virulence (2018) https://www.nature.com/articles/s41576-018-0055-5

[6] Monitor for COVID-19 vaccine resistance evolution during clinical trials (Nov 2020) https://journals.plos.org/plosbiology/article?id=10.1371/jou...

Re: CDC Internal Delta Variant Presentation

#79

Slide 20: >Given increased transmissibility, lower VE, and current vaccine coverage, NPIs needed to reduce transmission of Delta variant >Masking: >• Source control 40-60% effective >• Personal protection 20-30% effective >NO ADJUSTMENTS FOR OTHER INTERVENTIONS >• e.g., no distancing, no isolation, no gathering restrictions I'm... not sure about that? Delta is infecting people who just walk past each other in indoor…

Restaurants and bars are open because people really want them to be, not because the CDC recommends it. The CDC offers some suggestions on how to manage the risks of opening restaurants, but there's nothing to change there because they've never revoked their early 2020 guidance that it's a big risk.

Re: CDC Internal Delta Variant Presentation

#80
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

what's wrong with masked world? it helps stop the spread of other airborne diseases as well, it filters out (to some extent) the smog, facial recognition software has more trouble, so we regain at least some privacy...

The inability to see people's smiles, emotions is pretty sad. This is especially bad for new borns and kids. Also I don't know how people do it with having to smell their own breath for long. Regardless of how well the oral hygiene is, breath gets bad after eating some food. Also cloth masks are pretty much useless considering their penetration level of 97%. Moisture retention, reuse of cloth masks and poor filtratio…

Indeed, saying cloth or even surgical masks are effective is like using a wired fence to keep rodents out of your backyard.
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