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Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

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Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#71

Post by coldtea »

k-mcgrady wrote: post #60

"Cook wrapped up the memo by saying that he's looking forward to seeing employee faces. "I know I'm not alone in missing the hum of activity, the energy, creativity and collaboration of our in-person meetings and the sense of community we've all built," he wrote." CEO's all spout the same nonsense. The majority of people work because they need to earn money. They're not working to make a new 'family' or change the wo…

>CEO's all spout the same nonsense. The majority of people work because they need to earn money.

And Cook knows it. When he writes the above, it's just performative. The actual message is "come, or be fired".

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#72

Post by kelnos »

desine wrote: post #36
smoldesu wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would argue that your children will learn non-verbal communication even better with masks on. It encourages alternative methods of conversing and challenges you to be a better listener and more attentive student. Honestly I don't know why we didn't do this in elementary school just for the hell of it!

Call me a backwards traditionalist but I prefer to keep social skill development that has worked for millennia.

What we now call "school" has barely existed for centuries, let alone millennia. Pretty sure kids were much better socialized prior to our current state of primary education.

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#73

Post by actuator »

I can see why Apple did this. Based on data from internal surveys I know from big tech companies, there has been a split between three cohorts; remote, some days in office and all days in office.

The some/all days cohort in office is the one that is the majority in almost all big tech companies.

So, tech companies have to retain their offices. If they are paying for those spaces, do they not allow the employees who work from home to come office at all? That can reduce cost for them, but a lot of remote employees wish to have the option of being in office on few days they chose as per their wish, that means you need to reserve space for them. There was recently an article which said one of the big tech companies saved $1 billion in office costs(this was despite paying for office space). https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-04-28/google-is...

Also, if the teams are hybrid (remote/office) with some members of team being remote and some in office. There is extra burden for the team to accomodate the remote members for things like impromptu discussions as a group.

Personally, I like the option of being in office 2-3 days in a week most. Not having the burden of meals and having some bonding with folks in the company is something I like, it has been hard having that as a remote employee.

I think Apple should allow this call to be taken by individual teams though.

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#74

Post by coldtea »

pochamago wrote: post #69
k-mcgrady wrote: post #60

"Cook wrapped up the memo by saying that he's looking forward to seeing employee faces. "I know I'm not alone in missing the hum of activity, the energy, creativity and collaboration of our in-person meetings and the sense of community we've all built," he wrote." CEO's all spout the same nonsense. The majority of people work because they need to earn money. They're not working to make a new 'family' or change the wo…

There are also plenty of people who like their coworkers and enjoy spending time with them each day. I don't think everybody finds work to be an unfulfilling drain on their leisure time

>There are also plenty of people who like their coworkers and enjoy spending time with them each day

Of course. Especially those that hate their families (or themselves and can't spend time alone).

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#75

Post by ferdowsi »

Nbox9 wrote: post #51

I work for another company that is going to do a partial return to office. I will be looking at options for companies that offer full in person office (or 90% in person office) after things settle down. I have worked full remote for a total of 5 years of my career, and I believe working in the office is a competitive advantage. * Overhearing hallway conversations (and joining them) helps spawn invocation. * I often d…

Since starting to work remote I've discovered the power of shutting down the work laptop (not sleeping) at a set time and not looking back. No Slack or work email on the phone.

When I look back on hallway conversations, I can't think of many that really mattered. Actual important decisions are typically not made by IC engineers. Relevant conversations are usually inside team structures and not spontaneous.

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#76

Post by Larrikin »

InvertedRhodium wrote: post #63
ledauphin wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not?

Just seems like a somewhat arbitrary point to draw the line - I assumed there was some logical justification for it that I was missing.

Are you sure you aren't being facetious and pretending like you have not heard any mention of the numerous studies that show vaccinated people do not spread the virus in any significant percentage and how herd immunity works?

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#77

Post by d3ntb3ev1l »

coldtea wrote: post #68
Nbox9 wrote: post #51

I work for another company that is going to do a partial return to office. I will be looking at options for companies that offer full in person office (or 90% in person office) after things settle down. I have worked full remote for a total of 5 years of my career, and I believe working in the office is a competitive advantage. * Overhearing hallway conversations (and joining them) helps spawn invocation. * I often d…

> I save money by spending less on food, drinks, and electricity. Compared to commuting (car+gas) and time-to-commute opportunity costs (to use for personal house tasks, side projects, self health)? I seriously doubt it.

Agreed. The above reads like dated marketing from dinasour companies trying to convince people that office life is amazing.

“Imagine the hallway conversations that could start the next…” it will make up for your 2 hour commute and 3000 one bedroom apartment!

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#78

Post by Phrodo_00 »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #32
hauget wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Masks should be optional UNLESS you're NOT vaccinated.

I wish all the covid vaccine protocols were applied to other diseases we have vaccines for. Measles is a million times more infectious.

It's a bit overblown if there's no active pandemic thanks to herd immunity, but I wouldn't be against it (if it was a work policy, and not a law)

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#79

Post by jackbravo »

coldtea wrote: post #68
Nbox9 wrote: post #51

I work for another company that is going to do a partial return to office. I will be looking at options for companies that offer full in person office (or 90% in person office) after things settle down. I have worked full remote for a total of 5 years of my career, and I believe working in the office is a competitive advantage. * Overhearing hallway conversations (and joining them) helps spawn invocation. * I often d…

> I save money by spending less on food, drinks, and electricity. Compared to commuting (car+gas) and time-to-commute opportunity costs (to use for personal house tasks, side projects, self health)? I seriously doubt it.

I agree with most of the parent comments. Commuting costs can be reduced, I biked to work when possible, and it was not possible when my kids were at school, which will be the same once things settle down. So it was the same cost with or without remote work.

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#80

Post by hwbehrens »

coldtea wrote: post #68
Nbox9 wrote: post #51

I work for another company that is going to do a partial return to office. I will be looking at options for companies that offer full in person office (or 90% in person office) after things settle down. I have worked full remote for a total of 5 years of my career, and I believe working in the office is a competitive advantage. * Overhearing hallway conversations (and joining them) helps spawn invocation. * I often d…

> I save money by spending less on food, drinks, and electricity. Compared to commuting (car+gas) and time-to-commute opportunity costs (to use for personal house tasks, side projects, self health)? I seriously doubt it.

I'm obviously an outlier, but I live an 8 minute (peaceful) bike ride from work. I hate commuting, so I optimized for that for this job, and working from home last year was absolutely a net negative for me. Distracting kids, poor work-life balance, more expensive (AC, food, water, etc).

I think the lesson here is, some companies can be remote-first, some companies can be in-person, and different employees will prefer different environments based on what's going on in their lives and the choices they make.

It should not be the case that one "tribe" should try to impose their preference on the other, which was the case pre-COVID (e.g. almost everyone was forced to be in-person), and I suspect fear of a return to that status quo is what is driving a lot of these discussions.

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