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Intel chief Pat Gelsinger: Too many chips made in Asia
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Re: Intel chief Pat Gelsinger: Too many chips made in Asia
#72Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't understand this thinking. Why would we want to impoverish others? After all, it's not like these power brokers give a shit about the American public, it's about great power competition.
first of all, I don't think "impoverish" is quite the right word. if you have a 9700k and I buy a 10900k, my cpu is faster, but your cpu is no slower than it was yesterday. past that, I don't really understand what there is to explain. if it would be good for everyone to have $1000, it would be even better (as an individual) to have $10000. assuming you care about money/chips/whatever. if you don't it obviously doesn…
I don't see how depriving others of technological advancement comports with any kind of justifiable theory of social governance, it's just a method of dominating others.
I am not convinced we even benefit much from these kinds of antics. We have a few more consumer goods, but fundamental goods (education, housing, medicine, food) are sky-high in price, there are few worker protections, and huge portions of the budget are dedicated to illegal military adventures. I think cooperating and sharing technology widely leads to a richer world.
Re: Intel chief Pat Gelsinger: Too many chips made in Asia
#73Is there a term for "company starts advocating a valid social concern when it aligns with their interests"?
“standard practice”
Re: Intel chief Pat Gelsinger: Too many chips made in Asia
#74Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think a national security argument will highlight the importance and urgency a lot better.
I think National Security might have something to do with manufacturing of electronics moving outside the US. The war on crypto called for manufactures to either provide two versions of their product, or move manufacturing to a place they could export a single product: https://www.eff.org/pages/decrypting-puzzle-palace
So? Don't most manufacturers already have to provide multiple product versions if they sell internationally, to handle different electricity/plug differences around the world (among many other things)? Maybe there is an effect, but it isn't as if products sold worldwide come in one version that works everywhere.
Corporations love excuses to differentiate (read: charge more, especially for local captive customers) for products. Big Pharma uses all sorts of US government programs to run interference for them - patents, import/export restrictions, legal buying requirements, etc - all to charge more for the US version of products they sell dirt cheap elsewhere.
Whatever "National Security" effect was present causing manufacturing to move overseas was dominated by maximizing profits: wringing savings out of the supply chain and lower labor costs. The result was predictable.
I see Intel's complaint about this a way to drum up or steer business their way, hobble their competitors that rely on Asian chip manufacturing, seek future government intervention to help them - or accomplish all of the above.
Re: Intel chief Pat Gelsinger: Too many chips made in Asia
#75Is there a term for "company starts advocating a valid social concern when it aligns with their interests"?
It's broader than just social, but I really like "strategy credit": https://stratechery.com/2013/strategy-credit/
Basically, do the right thing when it's easy to do, or even better, it directly benefits you.
Re: Intel chief Pat Gelsinger: Too many chips made in Asia
#76TSMC is far too important to far too many parties. We're getting dangerously close to a direct US/China war for Taiwan. That wouldn't be good for anybody. Both sides will claim it's about something else, but really it's all about the chips.
Re: Intel chief Pat Gelsinger: Too many chips made in Asia
#77As he says here, the decision not to take risk and jump to EUV with TSMC and Samsung was the mistake that started this downfall and it snowballed. The decision happened somewhere in the pathfinding stage into 10nm. When Gerald Marcyk was running Intel components research back in the 2001 Intel was already considering using EUV lithography for the 45nm technology node that would come out 2007. It turned out that the s…
Well, not to forget the 157i debacle.
Intel first started cheaping out as far back as 2003-2005.
157i could've been almost as good as EUV, at much lower cost, but Intel fully consciously decided to forego it because "nobody can beat us on 193i yet," and of conern that 157i consortium will give superior litho to potential competitors.
Re: Intel chief Pat Gelsinger: Too many chips made in Asia
#78I'm all for redistributing fab capacity geographically. But I thought it became concentrated in Asia because of the lower cost for high quality engineers due to LCOL. How will Intel change this equation to make it profitable in other geographic regions?
Cost of living is 20% lower in San Jose, Costa Rica (location of Intel manufacturing plant) compared to TSMC in Taiwan.
Yeah, it's not cost of living, it's that everything is there... it's a chicken-egg because even if you move the physical fab, everything you need still needs to be transported or you need to convince people to move with you.
This isn't a one year project, this could be a 25 year project to get the entire pipeline from raw resource to a piece of silicon.
Re: Intel chief Pat Gelsinger: Too many chips made in Asia
#79Earlier quoted context omitted.
> and don't single out a geoethnic region. He didn't. Asia is a continent, and it's no different than saying the biggest consumer of hot dogs is North America. I'm Asian, fwiw.
Asia is not a continent though, more like “other worlds that don’t speak Indo-European languages”
> Asia is not a continent though
According to...?
And if it's not a continent, what is it?
> “other worlds that don’t speak Indo-European languages”
There are hundreds of Indo-European languages spoken in Asia. One of them (Hindi) is the 4th most common first language in the world, after Mandarin, Spanish, and English[1]. (I'm actually surprised Arabic isn't higher on that list but maybe the various regional variants count as different languages?)
I'm not sure where you're getting your geography and linguistics information from.
1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_languages_by_number_of...
Re: Intel chief Pat Gelsinger: Too many chips made in Asia
#80I'm all for redistributing fab capacity geographically. But I thought it became concentrated in Asia because of the lower cost for high quality engineers due to LCOL. How will Intel change this equation to make it profitable in other geographic regions?
Labor costs in a modern fab are a pretty small part of total costs. The fab construction itself as well as filling it with semiconductor manufacturing equipment (like those ASML EUV lithography machines) swamp labor costs.