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Wild lynx could be reintroduced into Scottish Highlands

theguardian.com

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Re: Wild lynx could be reintroduced into Scottish Highlands

#71

Post by u678u »

mNovak wrote: post #18
theptip wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and Scotland's ecology isn't obviously in need of them. If you've visited Scotland's countryside, you might have noticed the sweeping vistas of grassy green fields, yellow bushy marshes, and purple heather -- and a conspicuous absence of any trees. It's a very unnatural landscape, historically speaking. Scotland (along with the rest of the UK) cut down most of their old growth forests in the industrial revolution,…

Deer seem to be a problem everywhere. In the US midwest they're all over the place.

North East as well, 100 years ago there were practically none, now they're common in most suburbs. Along with ticks and Lyme disease.

Re: Wild lynx could be reintroduced into Scottish Highlands

#72

Post by maxerickson »

theptip wrote: post #13
TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #7

Lynx are extremely photogenic, but I can't help wondering - why? They're not endangered, they are aggressive predators, and Scotland's ecology isn't obviously in need of them. The fact that they were common half a millennium ago when the ecosystem was very different doesn't seem particularly relevant. So if this is just for tourism and/or as a vanity project and there are no solid ecological or scientific reasons, I'…

> and Scotland's ecology isn't obviously in need of them. If you've visited Scotland's countryside, you might have noticed the sweeping vistas of grassy green fields, yellow bushy marshes, and purple heather -- and a conspicuous absence of any trees. It's a very unnatural landscape, historically speaking. Scotland (along with the rest of the UK) cut down most of their old growth forests in the industrial revolution,…

Northern Michigan has lots of trees, but deer browsing has a big impact on what species regenerate (so for instance, there is little young cedar).

We have a few cougars and wolves and a pretty robust hunting season and it doesn't make much in the way of a difference.

Re: Wild lynx could be reintroduced into Scottish Highlands

#73

Post by maxerickson »

SllX wrote: post #66
andrewflnr wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lynx are not large predators. I can't see them making a dent in the deer population. Ed: I stand corrected, I guess.

Apparently they hunt and kill deer and reindeer in Finland.[1] I would have thought the same but seeing your comment prompted me to do a search. Found a handful of YouTube vids claiming the featured Lynx killed the deer they were recording, but none of the first 5 I checked featured a Lynx performing the kill, only the eating. [1] http://www.largecarnivores.fi/species/lynx/lynxs-diet-and-hu...

How much of the herd to they kill each year?

Google says there are 100,000 deer, 200,000 reindeer and ~1200 lynx. So there's enough that they could make a difference (but it matters a lot how often they would take a deer).

Re: Wild lynx could be reintroduced into Scottish Highlands

#74

Post by jacobr »

I found it interesting that 48 year old Anders Povlsen is using his fortune buying up estates, trading with the state to get large adjacent areas to rewild - to the point where he’s now the largest private land owner https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anders_Holch_Povlsen

Re: Wild lynx could be reintroduced into Scottish Highlands

#75

Post by SllX »

maxerickson wrote: post #73
SllX wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apparently they hunt and kill deer and reindeer in Finland.[1] I would have thought the same but seeing your comment prompted me to do a search. Found a handful of YouTube vids claiming the featured Lynx killed the deer they were recording, but none of the first 5 I checked featured a Lynx performing the kill, only the eating. [1] http://www.largecarnivores.fi/species/lynx/lynxs-diet-and-hu...

How much of the herd to they kill each year? Google says there are 100,000 deer, 200,000 reindeer and ~1200 lynx. So there's enough that they could make a difference (but it matters a lot how often they would take a deer).

Turns out we suck at engineering ecology: about the best we can do is introduce a wild population into conditions we think they’ll survive and let nature take its course. Prey and predators eventually reach their own sort of equilibrium if we leave them to it, absent factors which are severely detrimental to either.

And this isn’t a deer extermination project either: it’s a lynx reintroduction project.

Re: Wild lynx could be reintroduced into Scottish Highlands

#76

Post by chrisbennet »

jessaustin wrote: post #24
mNovak wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Deer seem to be a problem everywhere. In the US midwest they're all over the place.

Crossbows are easy to use and don't alarm neighbors. Venison is delicious and nutritious. Butchering a deer is a fun and educational project for the whole family, and requires very little equipment: knives and a big table, plus a tree limb and some rope for the initial skinning. This is yet another problem that people could solve for themselves, if enough of them cared to do so.

I grew up eating deer and partridge (ruffed grouse) and in my opinion, they aren't delicious. They don't taste good because the have very little fat. (Moose do taste good for some reason.) To make deer hamburgers you have to add beef fat.

If you have eaten wild game that tasted good I suspect it was augmented in some way. We used have some sort of gravy or marinade on deer meat and pin some bacon on partridge.

"Gordon Ramsay Demonstrates How To Cook Venison With A Red Wine & Chocolate Sauce"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=05Q_0tkHLxQ

Re: Wild lynx could be reintroduced into Scottish Highlands

#78

Post by ggm »

rmah wrote: post #63
youngtaff wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sheep farming is pretty uneconomic in the UK, and sheep are destructive beasts so lynx reducing their numbers might be a good thing

Um, then why are there 22.5 mil sheep in the UK for just 67mil people? Contrast this to 5.2 mil sheep in the US for 330 mil people. It must be at least marginally profitable for so many sheep to be raised in the UK (or are agriculture subsidies really that large and widespread in the UK?)

Yes. farming subsidies are huge. 55% of farming income is derived from the CAP (pre-brexit) and the UK is a net importer of sheep meat.

Lamb is not popular in the US. It's a speciality meat. Lamb is common across europe.

Also: Australia: 75m sheep for 25m people Also: New Zealand: 25m sheep for 5m people

This quote:

A sheep farmer from North York Moors national park in northern England, who owns about 700 sheep over 1,250 acres, makes around £12,000 profit in a good year, and even this small income would be impossible without subsidies worth about £44,000 from the EU Common Agricultural Policy.

https://www.surgeactivism.org/articles/uk-farming-subsidies-...

Re: Wild lynx could be reintroduced into Scottish Highlands

#79

Post by stevekemp »

NikolaeVarius wrote: post #44
eloff wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Butchering a deer is a fun and educational project for the whole family I would find it gross and traumatic to the point where I might lose my lunch. I eat meat, but if I had to butcher my own meat I'd go vegetarian. I like your solution though, I'm surprised that the market doesn't just solve the problem to the point where we're worried about there being too few deer - is hunting limited or is there not enough dem…

Thats a side effect of a life sheltered from nature. I'm a city boy, but I was sent to the countryside every once in a while to learn how to kill and butcher animals so I could respect what nature has given us.

My grandparents owned/ran a farm, so I grew up in a city but spent my summer holidays there. I learned pretty early on that we don't give names to the animals.

That said I've no qualms about doing the "dirty work" myself, if necessary. I can't imagine how it ever would be, but I'm kinda grateful I got to see where meat, and to a lesser extent crops, come from. As well as appreciating exactly how much work it is.

Nowadays I have a small allotment for growing food, but I know damn well farming life is not for me. For fun at a tiny scale is interesting and rewarding. Doing it commercially is a hell of a lot of work. (Though I know nothing of the American-styled "super-farms" with all the automation.)

Re: Wild lynx could be reintroduced into Scottish Highlands

#80

Post by ascorbic »

peteretep wrote: post #70
pvaldes wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A species can be common in some place and critically endangered in other at the same time. Wildlife managers are enough smart to distinguish between the global and local situations. And talking about that, I had seen before hunters bragging about how they can solve in a week what the stupid biologists were unable to solve in ten years. They always say the same. Ok. Do it. Try it. I'll be waiting here. I still haven't…

> A species can be common in some place and critically endangered in other at the same time It is not critically endangered in the UK, it is several centuries extinct. The world is in no danger of losing this animal, the ecosystem in the UK has already adapted Next up you pretend like animal culling is some new practice dreamed up by hunting enthusiasts.

The ecosystem has adapted by losing most of its forest.
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