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Atlassian Cloud ToS section 3.3(I) prohibits discussing performance issues

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Re: Atlassian Cloud ToS section 3.3(I) prohibits discussing performance issues

#71

Post by guitarbill »

random3 wrote: post #20

If you start using Linear you won't need a benchmark to notice the difference. This is what happens when the "clueless" start "innovating". I've had several conversations over the years with members of Atlassian technical teams. They always wanted to work on performance, but never allowed (priorities). They are in "good" company (Oracle, China, etc.). What's preventing anonymous performance benchmarks, though?

what do they work on? how many other features can you bolt onto an already mediocre wiki? or is it just bugfixes, keeping up with browser quirks, and useless UI "redesigns"/reskins?

Re: Atlassian Cloud ToS section 3.3(I) prohibits discussing performance issues

#72

Post by confluence_perf »

runlevel1 wrote: post #65
rhencke wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does this relate to the performance issues being discussed?

In the case of Confluence specifically, it makes the cost of experimentation a lot steeper. Confluence's WYSIWYG editor will often make changes that can't be reversed with "undo" -- especially those involving indentation. Copy-paste frequently screws up its formatting as well. So if you don't want to risk losing lots of work, you have to make many smaller changes. With each change taking a few seconds, it adds up qui…

We're trying to collect and fix such occurrences, so if you have something with specific repro steps please send them to me and I'll make sure they get to the right team.

Re: Atlassian Cloud ToS section 3.3(I) prohibits discussing performance issues

#73

Post by confluence_perf »

ratww wrote: post #45
confluence_perf wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry to hear it's been a frustrating experience. I'm a PM for Confluence Cloud and we're always trying to make it better. Would you be willing to share more specifics, such as: - Pages with content X are the slowest - Trying to do A/B/C is annoyingly slow - etc ? (edit: looks like HN is severely limiting my reply rate so apologies for delays) We're trying to focus on frustrating pages/experiences rather than number…

> Trying to do A/B/C is annoyingly slow - etc ? [...] We're trying to focus on frustrating pages/experiences rather than number of network calls It's not really a problem with a certain page or a certain action: it's a systemic issue, that can only be solved with a systemic change. This has come up before here in HN [1]. From my point of view, ignoring the issue around number of calls/performance and all feedback reg…

Hi ratww,

Thank you for reiterating this point, and I'll try to shed some light on this. We actually are working on systemic changes to try to make this lighter/better but I can't talk about specifics until the feature is available.

On the other hand, any level of specificity is great, for example: 1) full page loads are slower and more annoying than Transitions (or, vice versa) 2) loading Home page is slower and more annoying than Search Results (or, vice versa) 3) waiting for the editor to load is more annoying than X/Y/Z 4) etc....

Even systemic changes require individual work for applying to these different views, so any level of specific feedback would be helpful.

(also it looks like HN is limiting my reply rate so apologies for any slowness)

Re: Atlassian Cloud ToS section 3.3(I) prohibits discussing performance issues

#74

Post by lukeschlather »

runlevel1 wrote: post #57
confluence_perf wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry to hear it's been a frustrating experience. I'm a PM for Confluence Cloud and we're always trying to make it better. Would you be willing to share more specifics, such as: - Pages with content X are the slowest - Trying to do A/B/C is annoyingly slow - etc ? (edit: looks like HN is severely limiting my reply rate so apologies for delays) We're trying to focus on frustrating pages/experiences rather than number…

Navigation is sluggish across the board in both Confluence and Jira. Not just the Cloud service, the self-hosted versions are also painfully slow no matter what resources you throw at them. That makes the other UX issues worse because the feedback loop has so much lag.

I know Jira has always had scaling issues. I used to work for a very large company in the early 2010s that had, I think 5 separate Jira instances. But they were I think dealing with on the order of ten thousand daily active users per instance.

Re: Atlassian Cloud ToS section 3.3(I) prohibits discussing performance issues

#76

Post by crooked-v »

confluence_perf wrote: post #36
eitland wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not GP but I also have the same feeling across Atlassian products: it is more like a general feeling all the time for many of us. I'm using the latest Firefox on Windows, a developer laptop with 32GB memory that was brand new this spring as well as 500/500 fiber.

Is this also on Cloud products? Right now on holiday (through Tuesday), but would like learn more. I see your contact info in your profile, if you give consent I'd like send you an email on Wednesday with some followup questions (the first question is "what is the URL for your cloud instance" so I don't want to be asking for it on a public forum) (edit: typo)

> Is this also on Cloud products?

On my company's cloud instance of Jira, it's a minimum of a 2-3 second delay to do anything. Edit, wait a few seconds, save, wait a few seconds, change a field, wait a few seconds... and God help you if you need to reload the page because something got stuck.

Re: Atlassian Cloud ToS section 3.3(I) prohibits discussing performance issues

#77

Post by AnHonestComment »

confluence_perf wrote: post #73
ratww wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Trying to do A/B/C is annoyingly slow - etc ? [...] We're trying to focus on frustrating pages/experiences rather than number of network calls It's not really a problem with a certain page or a certain action: it's a systemic issue, that can only be solved with a systemic change. This has come up before here in HN [1]. From my point of view, ignoring the issue around number of calls/performance and all feedback reg…

Hi ratww, Thank you for reiterating this point, and I'll try to shed some light on this. We actually are working on systemic changes to try to make this lighter/better but I can't talk about specifics until the feature is available. On the other hand, any level of specificity is great, for example: 1) full page loads are slower and more annoying than Transitions (or, vice versa) 2) loading Home page is slower and mor…

Your post comes across as patronizing and ignoring the feedback to your company.

I think less of your company for these posts.

Re: Atlassian Cloud ToS section 3.3(I) prohibits discussing performance issues

#78

Post by dylan604 »

Hamuko wrote: post #49
jjuhl wrote: post #26

"Atlassian Cloud ToS section 3.3(I) prohibits discussing performance issues" - Their ToS may prohibit it, but that is in no way going to stop me from doing it - I don't give a shit about some document they write. Atlassian products suck hard and their performance characteristics are horrible. I hate being forced to use their crap at work.

The problem with Atlassian's Terms of Service is that most of their end-users are not paying for the software and do not really care if they violate an agreement they were either forced to make or which someone made on their behalf.

They will suddenly care when Atlassian locks them out of being able to access anything. Then, we'll see posts on Twitter or here or elsewhere about some user crying about not getting access to "their" stuff on a 3rd party's site.

Re: Atlassian Cloud ToS section 3.3(I) prohibits discussing performance issues

#79

Post by akudha »

unixhero wrote: post #16

Atlassian Cloud customer here. Large enterprise. The Jira and Confluence cloud products are slow as fuuuuuck.

Same, they're slow as a snail high on weed.

I also got no response (or even an acknowledgement) for the feedback I gave. Like most people here, I too am forced to use it at work.

Re: Atlassian Cloud ToS section 3.3(I) prohibits discussing performance issues

#80

Post by dylan604 »

grzm wrote: post #58
tw25613937 wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not trying to be snarky, but... do you use your product?

These are questions I have as well. That said, creating a throwaway and prefacing a comment with "Not trying to be snarky" shouldn't be an excuse for not taking the time to couch questions in a way you're more confident aren't going to be interpreted in a negative way. This isn't directed just at you: I see this behavior all too often: people using throwaways as an excuse to not take the time to express things in a m…

If you need tips or TRICKS to make a product useable, you have a BAD product.
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