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Empathy and perspective taking: How social skills are built

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Re: Empathy and perspective taking: How social skills are built

#71

Post by darkerside »

kgarten wrote: post #67
darkerside wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's say a friend tells you their mother has died. You respond, "You must be very sad. What are you doing this weekend?" Your friend gets upset. Why? You understood what they were saying and acknowledged how they were feeling. What more is there to do? Does that hit home? If not, switch roles, so that your friend is the insensitive person who does understand how you feel, but doesn't feel the same way, because it's…

What I feel and how I act are two different thinks. You don't have to be emphatic to act in a reasonable way in your example. I would not ask about going out, not because I feel the same pain, but I know that my friend is hurt and I will hurt him more when I ask that. I don't have to feel the same way or similar to him to understand that. That's what rational compassion is about ... Rational compassion: You understan…

I think I agree with all of that. I will say empathy is a lot "easier" for people, as rational compassion requires life experience that people don't usually pick up until later. But they're different skills and are appropriate and effective at different times.

As for overrated/overhyped, I think those are dangerous words. Totally dependent on how you rate things, how you perceive others to rate them, and how they actually are. It's almost impossible to have constructive communication about something like that because everybody is operating from different sets of facts.

Re: Empathy and perspective taking: How social skills are built

#72

Post by snazz »

bawolff wrote: post #65
snazz wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Humans are pretty good at taking our own perspectives. If everyone did that instead of empathizing with others, our conversations would all run in circles and we would be an even more polarized society.

I actually don't think this is true. I've met lots of people who are self-deluding or don't conciously recognize their own patterns. We all have a story we tell about ourselves, but it often isn't the true story. That said, i don't think any of that conflicts with learning to empathisize with others. Understanding yourself is just as important as understanding other people. Personally i suspect they are related skill…

Hmm. That’s a valid point. I wasn’t thinking from that perspective, but your thoughts make sense. I came at it from the angle of arguing your own side in a disagreement with someone—that’s what I associate with perspective-taking. But the idea of misleading yourself with a fake story is another facet I failed to consider.

Re: Empathy and perspective taking: How social skills are built

#73

Post by BlueTemplar »

kgarten wrote: post #69
BlueTemplar wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But understanding has an emotional part, and memory relies a lot on emotions. Trying to get rid of emotions might be harmful.

again ... I'm not trying to get rid of emotions. That's not what I'm proposing. I just think the idea/concept of feeling the same as somebody else is strange and has its own dangers. Understand the others feelings, try to understand their point of view (also emotionally) that's great. Having exactly the same feelings probably not. "Empathy :: the action of understanding, being aware of, being sensitive to, and vicari…

Ah, yes, compassion vs empathy.

But both are needed, depending on the situation.

Re: Empathy and perspective taking: How social skills are built

#74

Post by zbentley »

alexashka wrote: post #50
rectang wrote: post #4

What I'm most interested in is to to what degree the lack of "facial expressions", "speech melody" and the like in internet communication impedes the development of empathy. We can communicate with more people than ever before, but our ability to empathize with those people is poor.

You don't develop empathy - some people have it, some people not so much. We need both, unless we want other countries to come by and explain to us that their un-empathetic people with guns will now be telling us how to live our lives. It's not ability to empathize that's poor online - it's motivation to empathize that's absent. I'd really rather not deal with temper tantrums ever, but if someone throws one and I'm a…

> some people have it, some people not so much.

I don't think that's true at all--not for empathy or for many other psychosocial quantities. While a statistically few people exist who really are biologically missing certain psychological abilities (what we usually call mental health disorders), for everyone else it's totally possible to increase/decrease things like empathy, critical thought, fearfulness, optimism, etc. over time.

Making those changes consciously is just a) hard and b) usually quite gradual/hard to gauge progress, so as a result the position that "you either innately have it or you don't" becomes quite seductive.

This sword cuts both ways: that ability to change is present even for awful or deeply suffering people. However, it's also possible for positive things (empathy, hopefulness and the like) to decrease over time even without conscious effort.

This is one of the reasons that I think everyone, if able, should try to get help in tracking their mental state, even if they're healthy: how you do this might differ (therapy, church, regular mental check-ins with a trusted confidant, journaling, meditation, whatever), but it is a really powerful quality of maturity to be able to watch--and to the extent you are able, manage--your "levels" of these personal/psychological qualities

Re: Empathy and perspective taking: How social skills are built

#75

Post by kqr »

bawolff wrote: post #62

Aren't narcissists supposed to have really good social skills but lack empathy? That makes me think the two aren't neccesarily connected.

Narcissists and psychopaths have excellent empathy (indeed it is part of their social skills). What they lack is sympathy and compassion.

Re: Empathy and perspective taking: How social skills are built

#76

Post by throw999666 »

loceng wrote: post #46
throw999666 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. Empathy is painful. It should not be the goal. I think the outcome for civilization would not be optimal if many more people were empathic right now, we still need a mix. But there are degrees of empathic ability. Only a very few people like me ( I think the general population is comprised only less than 20% of people who are "empathic" to the extent whare if they try, or, are relationally close to someone t…

If empathy is painful to you then you have unhealed/unprocessed trauma that's been suppressed-repressed, and then being triggered.

You don't know empathy (deep into others), what you say is deep into yourself. Not same. Painful is from their negative emotions, plus (for superempaths like me) emotions from all people round you, not you solo.

Re: Empathy and perspective taking: How social skills are built

#77

Post by BurningFrog »

bigbubba wrote: post #55
BurningFrog wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can see through the people who do it badly. Those who do it well, which is most of us, just seem like nice, friendly and interesting people.

> Those who do it well, which is most of us, Most people have not read that book nor any like it. Most people appear pleasant because that's the way they genuinely are, not because they went to a seminar or read a book to learn how to fake it.

Yeah, I wasn't talking about the book, just making real efforts to appear nice and friendly.

Re: Empathy and perspective taking: How social skills are built

#78

Post by [deleted] »

zbentley wrote: post #74
alexashka wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't develop empathy - some people have it, some people not so much. We need both, unless we want other countries to come by and explain to us that their un-empathetic people with guns will now be telling us how to live our lives. It's not ability to empathize that's poor online - it's motivation to empathize that's absent. I'd really rather not deal with temper tantrums ever, but if someone throws one and I'm a…

> some people have it, some people not so much. I don't think that's true at all--not for empathy or for many other psychosocial quantities. While a statistically few people exist who really are biologically missing certain psychological abilities (what we usually call mental health disorders), for everyone else it's totally possible to increase/decrease things like empathy, critical thought, fearfulness, optimism, e…

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