Google speakers are listening to more than just voice commands • Hacker News Board

Re: Google speakers are listening to more than just voice commands

#71

Post by TallGuyShort » Sat, Aug 08, 2020, 2:40 PM UTC

nkozyra wrote: post #69

exitheone wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://support.google.com/mail/answer/6603?hl=en This is most definitely false. Google still states that they do not scan your emails for as targeting.

And why would they? The data we provide to Google in myriad ways across numerous devices and services is far more fungible.

This thread is like Chris Farley's lines from Billy Madison.

"That Veronica Vaughn is one hot piece of ass. And I know from experience."

"No you don't"

"Well not me personally, but this guy I know. Him and her GOT IT ON."

"No they didn't"

"But you can imagine what it would be like if they did."

Re: Google speakers are listening to more than just voice commands

#72

Post by elliekelly » Sat, Aug 08, 2020, 2:51 PM UTC

paulcole wrote: post #24

beardedwizard wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you can't imagine the problem of having your private conversations recorded, then a business compelled to release them without a warrant? You can't imagine what inferences might be made about your personal conversations and sold to others? I do not think you are giving the words you say enough credit.

Of course I can imagine those problems! Those problems are brought up literally every time I mention that in-home speakers are not the end-of-the-world-nightmare-scenario so many people treat them as. I just don’t particularly care. Also if someone wants to cut out the middleman and buy my personal conversations directly, feel free to reach out. Great value! Last night I talked about weed and Top Chef!

I will purchase access to and broadcasting rights for all conversations that take place in your home. Name your price.

Re: Google speakers are listening to more than just voice commands

#73

Post by tunap » Sat, Aug 08, 2020, 2:54 PM UTC

exitheone wrote: post #66

marricks wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google did this with “we don’t scan your emails for ads”. Initially, 2009 ish, that was a big line a lot of people cared about but years later here we are, Google scanning emails for targeted ads and that fight is over. EDIT: Thanks for the reply exittheone, I see GMail actually stopped this ad scanning practice in 2017[1], likely with google sign in on chrome and so many places it’s very possibly they just don’t tha…

https://support.google.com/mail/answer/6603?hl=en This is most definitely false. Google still states that they do not scan your emails for as targeting.

Your words are as spurious as Goog's. Where you state Still means, they STOPPED scanning emails for targeted ads, supposedly in 2017(Did they "pinky-swear"?). So, they always did before, as stated it in plain words in 1st 2 paragraphs of their previous EULAs. Now that they claim they don't "scan emails for ads", they don't state they no longer scan emails and it does not state what they do, currently, scan emails for.

Please don't retort "they don't sell PII", as P2 most definitely is what they use to sell X to 3rd parties in whatever form the ubiquitous NDAs prevent the public from knowing.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gmail#Automated_scanning_of_em...

Edit: P2 > PII, am watching motogp & removed unnecessary personal jab.

Re: Google speakers are listening to more than just voice commands

#74

Post by jhardy54 » Sat, Aug 08, 2020, 3:00 PM UTC

TallGuyShort wrote: post #71

nkozyra wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And why would they? The data we provide to Google in myriad ways across numerous devices and services is far more fungible.

This thread is like Chris Farley's lines from Billy Madison. "That Veronica Vaughn is one hot piece of ass. And I know from experience." "No you don't" "Well not me personally, but this guy I know. Him and her GOT IT ON." "No they didn't" "But you can imagine what it would be like if they did."

No it isn't.

Google didn't originally scan emails. Then they did. Then they didn't.

Countering "Google scanned emails" with "well the don't right now" is the only ridiculous behavior in this thread.

Re: Google speakers are listening to more than just voice commands

#75

Post by im3w1l » Sat, Aug 08, 2020, 3:07 PM UTC

secabeen wrote: post #40

paul_f wrote: post #16

There is a big difference between smoke alarm detection built into the wake-up-word circuitry, versus every sound sent to Google's servers for analysis. I am not bothered by the former, but would be aghast at the latter. Does anyone know for sure?

Now that the feature is disabled, it's hard to know. Once the feature is enabled, it's pretty easy to tell by looking at the network traffic the device generates. Sending every sound to google is going to be obvious.

You could have covert wake-words.

Re: Google speakers are listening to more than just voice commands

#76

Post by scrollaway » Sat, Aug 08, 2020, 3:08 PM UTC

cameronbrown wrote: post #37

sukilot wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Enjoy your privilege of not being interesting or important enough to be the target of criminal activity or government opppression. Millions of people aren't so lucky, and they deserve empathy as they work to build a better world for you to carelessly enjoy.

How is other people's lives their responsibility?

Empathy is everyone's responsibility, yours included.

Re: Google speakers are listening to more than just voice commands

#77

Post by im3w1l » Sat, Aug 08, 2020, 3:09 PM UTC

Johnyma22 wrote: post #38

michaelcampbell wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What bothers you more; "one", or this particular company?

For me; both. "one" because it is too much of a situation of "all of your eggs in one basket". I understand why people heavily invest in a specific ecosystem but I feel it's short-termism. I would be open to the argument however that tech moves so quickly that short-termism doesn't really apply to most consumer products. "particular company" because Google has been a bad actor in all of the projects I have personally…

To me it more resembles telling your secret to one trusted friend vs telling everyone you know.

Re: Google speakers are listening to more than just voice commands

#78

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Aug 08, 2020, 3:12 PM UTC

feralimal wrote: post #49

How surprised would you be if in 5 years there was a Snowden-type revelation, that yes, the speakers and Facebook/Insta apps, Amazon echo, etc, etc, were listening all the time? Sorry. And that there was a secret court ruling that meant all that data was live-streamed to NSA Utah. Not surprised at all, is the answer.

[deleted]

Re: Google speakers are listening to more than just voice commands

#79

Post by tjpnz » Sat, Aug 08, 2020, 3:16 PM UTC

I'm surprised that people are outraged by this. It's a given that you're losing some privacy by putting one of these devices in your home. Any argument otherwise assumes that the companies manufacturing these devices are trustworthy.

Thankfully the solution to this problem is simple.

Re: Google speakers are listening to more than just voice commands

#80

Post by chaboud » Sat, Aug 08, 2020, 3:17 PM UTC

paul_f wrote: post #16

There is a big difference between smoke alarm detection built into the wake-up-word circuitry, versus every sound sent to Google's servers for analysis. I am not bothered by the former, but would be aghast at the latter. Does anyone know for sure?

It’s easy enough to test, but I don’t really need to.

Alexa Guard has had this functionality for a while, and I’d expect the folks here at HN to be able to infer a few things from the support link and basic reasoning.

Support link https://support.ring.com/hc/en-us/articles/360028205592-Usin...

So: 1) if an event is detected, you can listen to a 10 second clip or drop in (2-way call) to listen in or look. 2) Echo devices have relatively small amounts of RAM 3) Echo devices aren’t constantly hammering WiFi connections

From this, one should be able to deduce that the wakeword engine detects events and streams clips to servers only in situations that match events and settings to support these features. Why? Because processing, transit, and storage aren’t free, and one can’t store data in RAM that isn’t there or transmit data over WiFi without the physical layer showing signs of it. Furthermore, Amazon hasn’t cracked the code on hyper-efficient GB into KB lossless compression only to squirrel it away only for use in voice assistants.

Take the number of Alexa devices sold and run the numbers for all of those devices sending audio data to AWS all the time. The costs would be astronomical. The same goes for Google (though not with AWS). They’re no doubt incorporating the detectors into their on-device models.