How Chinese Officials Hijacked My Company • Hacker News Board

Re: How Chinese Officials Hijacked My Company

#71

Post by goatinaboat » Sat, Aug 08, 2020, 2:30 PM UTC

jacquesm wrote: post #7

corty wrote: post #3

The article gives several possible ways to improve the situation. However, one critical way is missing imho: China forces foreign investment to always come in the form of a joint venture with a Chinese company. This practice needs to be forbidden or heavily penalized in all future trade agreements and similar international contracts.

Forbidding that practice will simply mean that you won't be doing any more business in China. Which is fine with me. It's just that CEOs that see a virgin population of over a billion consumers for their widgets can't help themselves and will agree to just about anything to be able to tap that market before their competition does.

It's just that CEOs that see a virgin population of over a billion consumers for their widgets can't help themselves and will agree to just about anything to be able to tap that market before their competition does.

Every CEO must realise by now that they will never get to tap that market, they will hand over their IP, they will carry the cost of establishing the product or service in the country, and then be booted out with nothing. Then a few years later a heavily capitalised Chinese company will show up and start competing with them with their own IP in their home country. It's heads China wins, tails the West loses. While our political class buries their heads in the sand, or worse, colludes in return for scoring points against domestic opponents.

Re: How Chinese Officials Hijacked My Company

#72

Post by fermienrico » Sat, Aug 08, 2020, 2:30 PM UTC

NicoJuicy wrote: post #15

There's only one way out and ( to my opinion) it's redirecting resources to support "Made in India 2025"

Indian manufacturing is notoriously bad for the same reasons. So many Indian companies will backstab foreigners. They make fun of their gullibility, “firangis” and there is so much local callousness in India against foreigners.

Re: How Chinese Officials Hijacked My Company

#73

Post by Wolfenstein98k » Sat, Aug 08, 2020, 2:40 PM UTC

fermienrico wrote: post #70

Wolfenstein98k wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wumao.

Your comment is 28 mins old and there are so many anti-China comments in this thread that are downvoted into grayness. Something is definitely odd. This is an American forum, 7:27am on Saturday morning.

I assure you, any high-traffic website with commentary that touches on economic or geostrategic interests of China will have wumao on the prowl.

I have never seen posts get such quick and consistent downvoting as those that deal with China in a critical manner.

Re: How Chinese Officials Hijacked My Company

#74

Post by ithinkinstereo » Sat, Aug 08, 2020, 2:40 PM UTC

rayuela wrote: post #25

hummel wrote: post #13

It seems that Mr. Saleen has suffered the same fate that my electric car company suffered in 2010. After promising us a partnership, his only intention was to obtain the technology and the secrets, at that time one of the few complete EV powertrains on the market. As soon as the contracts were signed and the technology was evaluated, two separate companies were set up based on the same technology.I have to say that t…

How is this downvoted to oblivion 5 minutes after posting?

Because it’s a ridiculous rant that stereotypes an entire country and people based on one anecdote.

Plenty of entrepreneurs have been cheated / outplayed in the west in the same exact way. See the recent controversy about Amazon meeting with / investing in, startup companies for the purposes of stealing and cheating.

On a sidenote, wumao exists in the west too. And it’s just as sloppy.

See AMA from CIA Asset Rushan Abbas: https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/e9ad4n/i_am_rushan_ab...

Or this strange one from the Human Rights Watch China Director: https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/hwi7ub/i_am_soph...

Re: How Chinese Officials Hijacked My Company

#75

Post by Hoasi » Sat, Aug 08, 2020, 2:47 PM UTC

matz1 wrote: post #56

Wolfenstein98k wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you out-innovate a country which has less regulation, more intrusive surveillance, more factories ready to churn out whatever you invent, more workers (and Uighur slaves) ready to do the labour for less, and no qualms about stealing anything and everything you come up with and copying it at a scale you can't possibly match?

Maybe try do the same thing? Less regulation, more factory, more monitoring doesn't always mean bad thing. Cheap worker can probably be replaced with advance automation. I disagree that its a "stealing", you still have the knowledge.

Escalation may not be an efficient tactic, especially in this case, it would also mean a downgrade for businesses and consumers who benefit from said regulation in many countries.

Re: How Chinese Officials Hijacked My Company

#76

Post by cheez » Sat, Aug 08, 2020, 2:48 PM UTC

matz1 wrote: post #40

Wolfenstein98k wrote: post #27

The scale of their IP theft is incredible. The CFO survey said it is happening to 1 in 5 US corporations, which is incredible if you think about it - but the trouble is the scale is larger than that, when you include what they steal via surveillance too. I can't see an answer outside of decoupling, seeing as they're set on their path and proud of it. https://www.cnbc.com/2019/02/28/1-in-5-companies-say-china-s...

>I can't see an answer outside of decoupling Maybe stop relying on IP as your business strategy ? Always be innovating so that you always be one step ahead those who copying.

Knowledge creation and discovery is the engine of economies today. You might as well say "why don't you let everyone live in your house for free"

People who create need to be able to benefit from that creation.

Re: How Chinese Officials Hijacked My Company

#77

Post by SpicyLemonZest » Sat, Aug 08, 2020, 2:49 PM UTC

michaelcampbell wrote: post #36

secondcoming wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The agreement needs to be reciprocal. China should have to jump through the same hoops if it wants to do business in the US, UK, Australia, etc And not just for doing business either, things like home ownership too. If I cannot buy a house in China (not that I'd want to pay for a Chinese house that'll last 5 years max) because I'm not Chinese then they should not be allowed buy in my country either. Vancouver, Toront…

> The agreement needs to be reciprocal. China should have to jump through the same hoops if it wants to do business in the US, UK, Australia, etc Then deal with the woke cries of xenophobia.

Disapproval of China is strong across the political spectrum.

Re: How Chinese Officials Hijacked My Company

#78

Post by abc-xyz » Sat, Aug 08, 2020, 2:53 PM UTC

fxtentacle wrote: post #55

secondcoming wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is sad but true. There are some very interesting channels on youtube made by westerners who live in, or used to, China e.g. Serpentza. Some of them are quite eye-opening, especially more recent ones from when the CCP decided having foreigners in China is a bad thing. The videos from years ago were quite positive, but honest, generally about China. Not any more.

That sounds very interesting. Do you have some links to videos, both old an new, to illustrate the trend?

It’s worth pointing out that it was dangerous for him to highlight the bad parts of China while he was still living there. In one of his videos he mentioned that during his time in China he had recorded a lot of footage but he was understandably afraid to publish it (I believe he partly addresses it in this video unless my memory is failing me: https://youtube.com/watch?v=rbHxeOQA1Mc).

I personally like this video a lot: https://youtube.com/watch?v=ImmRjT74i-c. It talks a bit about why the rest of the world had no masks or other medical equipment when the Wuhan Virus spread outside of China.

There’s also another foreigner who was semi-famous in China that’s now making funny videos about China (e.g. https://youtube.com/watch?v=s8PYZQd3Dvo).

Re: How Chinese Officials Hijacked My Company

#79

Post by Ericson2314 » Sat, Aug 08, 2020, 2:55 PM UTC

Honestly I don't have much problem with protectionism. Flagrant theft is no good, but when the companies enter in the domestic partnership the IP transfer is rather more de jure. And if China didn't take any IP they would continue to be massively under-developed and just a source of cheap labor, be cause there's no way in hell US companies would have willingly fostered higher skills, higher pay there.

Let's face it, major US companies that outsource to China are doing fine, at least compared to workers, and we shouldn't start fucking WW III to raise their profits further.

What's far more concerning to me is what is described in https://phenomenalworld.org/reviews/trade-wars, the general race-to-the-bottom export dynamics where every country surpresses wages to try to stay competitive, and via the paradox of thrift not enough consumption has been afforded. This will ruin us. And we see the race to the bottom politically too, which follows.

That book says bilateral tarries are a farce because commerce can route around them. As a programmer that makes....goddamn sense. They instead recommend general capital controls, which cannot be routed around. That also makes sense.

How about we fix our rotten economy, reinvigorate society, and win a cultural war rather than loose a real one?

Re: How Chinese Officials Hijacked My Company

#80

Post by Ericson2314 » Sat, Aug 08, 2020, 2:59 PM UTC

kiba wrote: post #57

mattmanser wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you need to read up on your history. Here's an easy place to start. https://www.google.com/search?q=america+stole+britain+intell... There's plenty of documented evidence that America illegally stole tons of IP, often paid for by the state no less, otherwise known as industrial espionage. I'm sure they did it to all the European powers of the time too, probably plenty of examples of stolen tech from Spain, the…

Too much effort? America llegally stole tons of IP, otherwise known as industrial espionage. What about it? That was over a century ago. It still doesn't make China's industrial espionage ethical or right.

Let's put it this way, if American companies had their way, china would still be low-education hoard of manual labors with no advanced industry. Obvious no country wants to end up in this situation.

Let's promote actually good things like free speech, privacy, etc., and not draconian IP policies that just allow the same rent seeking giant corporations everywhere to fuck us all over everywhere. If we tie everything together, we'll loose all of it.