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Andrew Ng: The suspension of H1B is bad for the US and bad for innovation

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Re: Andrew Ng: The suspension of H1B is bad for the US and bad for innovation

#71

Post by hedora »

evgen wrote: post #31
btilly wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "without chaining it to a specific company" is critical. When the employee is chained to a company, the company has every incentive to lie then treat the employee poorly. When the employee is not chained to the company, the company has incentives to tell the truth then treat the employee well.

Unfortunately the reality is that there is absolutely no one who is interested in pushing a visa scheme like this. Employers are not interested in going through effort and paperwork for an employee who can jump ship for a better offer down the street once they are in the country. Other employees are not interested in increasing the supply of similar labor that will drive down their market value. The only ones who are…

I’d rather not give my employer the ability to abuse my H-1B coworkers.

Why should they hire someone who can walk to a competitor at the drop of a hat when they can hire someone that will probably be deported if they step out of line or demand market-rate compensation?

(Also, many of my friends have/had H-1B’s...)

Re: Andrew Ng: The suspension of H1B is bad for the US and bad for innovation

#72

Post by esalman »

Looking at the details, this allows for transitions from F1 and OPT status to H1B. However it suspends H1B stamping, meaning you probably cannot leave USA. Having said that, there's been rumors of some form of restriction or suspension of OPT as well.

I am researching on brain function and mental health. As a grad student I make less than what many Americans get in unemployed benefits. I think you'll be hard pressed to find any American willing to do my job. My mom was denied US visitor Visa several times, I need to travel abroad to see her and this suspension will force me to rethink my future in the USA.

Re: Andrew Ng: The suspension of H1B is bad for the US and bad for innovation

#73

Post by rantwasp »

automated_toast wrote: post #8

I for one am ecstatic about this. I want less competition for my role, not more. It is hard to compete when the top 5% of every other economy comes in and crowds me out.

this is the type of short time thinking that gets you in trouble. you’re not wrong that you’re going to do great for a while but when big tech starts moving operations overseas or in Canada you will see the macro result of this - and you’re not gonna like it

Re: Andrew Ng: The suspension of H1B is bad for the US and bad for innovation

#74

Post by xienze »

padiyar83 wrote: post #33
gbronner wrote: post #5

H1B is terrible for the employees, and for those who work alongside them. Companies try to slow down green cards, and use H1Bs as virtual indentured servants. They also fake looking for Americans- in practice, many of the jobs are earmarked for a specific person, and you are wasting your time applying for it. Losing your job as an h1b requires you to leave almost immediately, which isn't great for anyone. Hopefully t…

This will fuel the "remote anywhere" trend that's already underway. If a H1b engineer in US suppresses wage growth, wait until the same engineer can do the work for 1/3rd the cost from his own country, especially when everyone in the team is remote.

> wait until the same engineer can do the work for 1/3rd the cost from his own country, especially when everyone in the team is remote.

It’s not quite as easy as it seems, believe me software companies have been trying to pull this off for decades. I’ve been around situations where a US team was offshored and returned again because the results were so dreadful.

What people forget is that the folks who actually make it here are the absolute cream of the crop. There are not a billion Indians just like the super talented one you’ve worked with at your office. And that’s not even getting into timezone and communication problems.

Re: Andrew Ng: The suspension of H1B is bad for the US and bad for innovation

#75

Post by [deleted] »

tomp wrote: post #50
gringoDan wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The graph is not just people, but specifically inventors. The US has a giant net influx of inventors (some of whom arrive on a H1B), which presumably creates wealth, jobs, etc.

How many of those really arrive on H1B, and how many of those have no other options? I was told that even I could apply for some "talent visa" (the one that fashion models often use) because I competed in the math olympiad... the bar seems to be set incredibly low (speaking of myself, not the models).

[deleted]

Re: Andrew Ng: The suspension of H1B is bad for the US and bad for innovation

#76

Post by nine_zeros »

president wrote: post #38

While Andrew Ng is devastated that an H1B worker and their family has to pack their bags and return to their home country, one American worker will have the opportunity to enter the job market and feed his/her family. EDIT: Unfortunately, we find ourselves in a situation where many engineers on HN are H1B workers themselves or start-up owners/affiliates who benefit and profit off of H1B workers so it's obvious that I…

> While Andrew Ng is devastated that an H1B worker and their family has to pack their bags and return to their home country, one American worker will have the opportunity to enter the job market and feed his/her family.

And the H1B will also take their monetary capital (above average) and work potential somewhere else.

Which means, one lesser person paying rent, one lesser person buying local produce, one lesser person buying American cars, one lesser person paying taxes, one lesser internet connection, one lesser cellphone connection, one lesser purchaser of iphone.

Not to mention, the loss of productive work done, years worth of training that makes up that individual all lost.

How many jobs do you gather were lost by removing a productive individual now?

Re: Andrew Ng: The suspension of H1B is bad for the US and bad for innovation

#77

Post by jkaplowitz »

evgen wrote: post #31
btilly wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "without chaining it to a specific company" is critical. When the employee is chained to a company, the company has every incentive to lie then treat the employee poorly. When the employee is not chained to the company, the company has incentives to tell the truth then treat the employee well.

Unfortunately the reality is that there is absolutely no one who is interested in pushing a visa scheme like this. Employers are not interested in going through effort and paperwork for an employee who can jump ship for a better offer down the street once they are in the country. Other employees are not interested in increasing the supply of similar labor that will drive down their market value. The only ones who are…

American immigrant to Canada here. Canada has skilled worker permanent residence visas that, in many cases (and ignoring temporary pandemic-related delays), take half a year or less from start to finish.

Mine was slower but still faster than a lot of immigrant experiences to the US, and I did it from outside Canada and without an employer involved at all.

The skilled worker visas don't need family in country, though it can be a minor help in the points systems they use. My CS degree and work experience mattered far more.

As to why it's hard in the US, I'd attribute that more to attitudes among the population and media than to the inherent nature of having to make policy that appeals to voters: Canada is (at least) as much of a democracy as the US, and even the Conservative Party of Canada isn't proposing to eliminate fast skilled worker processing - they're in fact the party that introduced the quick program I alluded to above. Certainly the other two major national parties are even more friendly to immigration. There are xenophobes in Canada, but firmly in the minority when examined at the national level.

Canada also has fast sponsorship programs for spouses and kids.

Re: Andrew Ng: The suspension of H1B is bad for the US and bad for innovation

#78

Post by umvi »

There are 2 sides to every coin.

It can be frustrating/demoralizing to American software developers as well, when they go to interview for a job, to see they are competing with an absolute flood of Indian and Chinese H1Bs. Then, when all of your interviewers are Chinese and Indian as well and you don't get the job, you sort of feel like the victim of favoritism and that you've been pushed out of your own country's industry by foreign nationals.

Re: Andrew Ng: The suspension of H1B is bad for the US and bad for innovation

#79

Post by vsskanth »

IMO all this uncertainty is due to a lack of action from Congress on immigration. US Citizens need to come to terms with their immigration priorities - how many and what kind of immigrants do we need in the US, and vote for representatives who promise to bring this to a conclusion.

H1B, in its current state combined with green card laws have led to a massive group (600K+) of permanent non-immigrants in the US. This leads to a lot of pain and heartbreak for people who follow all the laws, pay all taxes and looking to establish a stable life. Many of these folks have US citizen kids.

Many don't realize how difficult it is to keep up with all the paperwork just to ensure you are in legal status in the US. The level of arbitrary regulation by USCIS is only making everyone's life painful while not solving the root cause (H1B abuse).

Re: Andrew Ng: The suspension of H1B is bad for the US and bad for innovation

#80

Post by hedora »

dclowd9901 wrote: post #39
padiyar83 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This will fuel the "remote anywhere" trend that's already underway. If a H1b engineer in US suppresses wage growth, wait until the same engineer can do the work for 1/3rd the cost from his own country, especially when everyone in the team is remote.

You say this like it’s that easy. We have remotes working in Singapore and Australia, and it is a far cry from “easy” to work with these people either due to timing constraints, language barriers or other aspects that disrupt fluid communication.

Timezones are the biggest issue from what I’ve seen. People can learn English, and get used to video calls / written communication.

I wonder why more companies don’t outsource to Canada and South America (or the Midwest, for that matter.)

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