71–80 of 283 posts
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Wait until you read about the Roman Republic thousands of years before this time - you’re gonna love it.
Yeah but besides the sanitation system,the aqueduct, the roads, the irrigation system, medicine,oratory, law, historians, dramatists,Vitruvius..what did those lousy Romans have?
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The "hungry" looters getting food by selling them is a much better outcome then the rich "gentleman" taking pleasure by seeing them in a museum. Just because one won the genetic lottery by being born in a richer nation doesn't mean their entertainment has more value than the food of "hungry" looters, who too are human beings.
So its ok if local thieves and looters take the treasures with no thought of their preservation or provenance? But a methodical effort of record-keeping and analysis is wrong, simply because of the thieves nationality? That's what I mean by 'PC'. One results in the loss forever of the treasure; the other at least preserves them. One is 'better' than the other, only from a comfortable armchair far from the turmoil.
No. But two wrongs don't make a right.
> a methodical effort of record-keeping and analysis is wrong, simply because of the thieves nationality?
When the thieves illegally steal a nation's artifacts and illegally sell them to a private buyer? Yes.
> One is 'better' than the other, only from a comfortable armchair far from the turmoil.
... he said, from a comfortable armchair far from the turmoil.
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Oh is Iraq's government stable again? Are the people not at risk of hunger? Will the sanctity of museums be observed now and in the future, uninterrupted? The Elgin marbles are safe in the British Museum. Would they have been safe, left where they were found, for 100 years? Being PC about antiquities is intellectually interesting. But practically, it means many antiquities will be broken up, lost or hidden.
I agree with you, but unfortunately, that doesn’t justify theft.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
So its ok if local thieves and looters take the treasures with no thought of their preservation or provenance? But a methodical effort of record-keeping and analysis is wrong, simply because of the thieves nationality? That's what I mean by 'PC'. One results in the loss forever of the treasure; the other at least preserves them. One is 'better' than the other, only from a comfortable armchair far from the turmoil.
> So its ok if local thieves and looters take the treasures with no thought of their preservation or provenance? No. But two wrongs don't make a right. > a methodical effort of record-keeping and analysis is wrong, simply because of the thieves nationality? When the thieves illegally steal a nation's artifacts and illegally sell them to a private buyer? Yes. > One is 'better' than the other, only from a comfortable a…
Earlier quoted context omitted.
So its ok if local thieves and looters take the treasures with no thought of their preservation or provenance? But a methodical effort of record-keeping and analysis is wrong, simply because of the thieves nationality? That's what I mean by 'PC'. One results in the loss forever of the treasure; the other at least preserves them. One is 'better' than the other, only from a comfortable armchair far from the turmoil.
Sure, if a national treasure is found below your home, you think it's okay to kick you out without any compensation, because history >> individuals? Do you want to share the natural resources of your own nation with others for free? If not, how on earth is it OK to snatch that of others from them, just because they fit your historical curiosity? This is basically saying we are superior people, and we need to keep thi…
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What a tragedy. Most westerners don't realize that when Europeans were living in mud huts and emptying their chamber pots into the streets, the Muslim world had plumbing, water filtration, surgery, advanced mathematics, and many more amazing scientific advances which quickly spread throughout Muslim countries due to the cultural exchange at Mecca. I wonder what the world could have been like if the Mongols had never…
I’m pretty sure I learned all that in high school (in Virginia, 20 years ago when it was still a red state).
One of the outcomes of the US-Iraq war was Iraq's national heritage of antiquities getting plundered and sold illegally.[1] The burning of the Library of Alexandria is a potent symbol in Western culture, but the world has repeatedly suffered massive losses of cultural and historical artifacts in the last few decades. The public quickly develops historical amnesia for recent events. Compare, for example, the loss of B…
This sounds like the beginning of a horror movie you'd find on Lifetime or Hallmark, but where the ancient Mesopotamian evil accepts Christ and sits down for tea and cakes with the children like in Narnia.
> Hobby Lobby bought the tablet in a private sale, after a Hobby Lobby representative viewed the tablet in London. The auction house shipped the tablet to its New York office and, from there, hand-carried it to Hobby Lobby's headquarters in Oklahoma City, "so that Hobby Lobby could avoid incurring a New York sales tax," according to prosecutors. Oy vey. I don't know how serious this is but it's not a great look. Is t…
This to me is the most egregious part: > [...] authorities said it bought thousands of artifacts that had been smuggled out of Iraq. Some of the items on display at the Museum of the Bible had been looted from previously unknown archaeological sites. Breathtakingly unethical.
Don't forget this is the group that voluntarily funded research that eventually proved some of their most prized possessions were, in fact, forgeries[0], so we have to assume they have at least a modicum of ethics.
[0] https://www.nationalgeographic.com/history/2020/03/museum-of...
> "Whenever looted cultural property is found in this country, the United States government will do all it can to preserve heritage by returning such artifacts where they belong," How does this tablet differ from any other artifact in a museum? Couldn't it be argued that any ancient artifact from another culture is stolen?
The British Museum is embroiled in many such controversies[1] and has put up statements around their Parthenon sculptures[2]. Large artifacts have been returned by nation states[3].
Generally, as I understand it, museums will keep artifacts they obtained under a framework that was legal at the time of its construction. Modern critics point out that these legal frameworks likely would not have been accepted by the population of the country giving up the artifact.
The Hobby Lobby artifacts do not even have a questionable legal framework as a fig leaf over their theft. They were taken in violation of international law as well as Iraqi and US law.
[1] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/nov/04/british-museum...
[2] https://www.britishmuseum.org/parthenon-sculptures-trustees-...