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California’s new law bans schools from starting before 8am

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Re: California’s new law bans schools from starting before 8am

#71

The implied assumption in all this discussion is that everyone stays up late so 7am doesn't work. Perhaps the question should be why society is so geared for waking hours shifted partly into the night. Perhaps people should wake with the sun and sleep soon after dark. But so much entertainment is scheduled during the evening, and everyone is so deeply entrenched in their habits.

I don't think that is the implied assumption; the stated reason for this change, FTA:

> The American Academy of Pediatrics, which backed the bill, said in 2014 policy statement that getting too little sleep puts teenagers’ physical and mental health at risk, as well as their academic performance. The organization cited research that shows that biological changes in puberty make it difficult for the average teenager to fall asleep before 11pm, and that teenagers need between 8.5 and 9.5 hours of sleep to function at their best.

Re: California’s new law bans schools from starting before 8am

#72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It should be. There's a lot of research showing that kids need 8+ hours of sleep even more than adults.

Why can't you get 8+ hours of sleep if you have practice at 6:15?

How many people did you know in school that went to bed at 10pm? I don't think I knew any.

Re: California’s new law bans schools from starting before 8am

#73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It should be. There's a lot of research showing that kids need 8+ hours of sleep even more than adults.

Why can't you get 8+ hours of sleep if you have practice at 6:15?

Let’s say you can sleep until 5, which is somewhat optimistic for many families with multiple responsibilities in the morning.

That means you have to be asleep no later than 9, which means depending on the time of year it may still be light out, and certainly the community is still fairly active. Plus I recall a recent study that essentially said teenagers are naturally night owls.

Expecting teenagers to be asleep by 9 is a losing battle.

Re: California’s new law bans schools from starting before 8am

#74

The implied assumption in all this discussion is that everyone stays up late so 7am doesn't work. Perhaps the question should be why society is so geared for waking hours shifted partly into the night. Perhaps people should wake with the sun and sleep soon after dark. But so much entertainment is scheduled during the evening, and everyone is so deeply entrenched in their habits.

[deleted]

Re: California’s new law bans schools from starting before 8am

#75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It should be. There's a lot of research showing that kids need 8+ hours of sleep even more than adults.

Why can't you get 8+ hours of sleep if you have practice at 6:15?

Because it is tough for high school students to fall asleep early enough.

"In the teenage years, the hormonal response to the 24-hour daily light/dark exposure that influences circadian rhythm is altered, making adolescents physiologically yearn to stay awake later at night and to remain asleep later in the day."

https://www.neurologytimes.com/blog/teenage-circadian-rhythm

Re: California’s new law bans schools from starting before 8am

#76

This is a great move by California. My family engaged with school district officials a few times on why we started school so early, when there is so much research showing it is harmful for teenager. The answer we got was... buses and sports. And little kids. Basically, the district needed to make sure that elementary school kids weren't walking to school or waiting for buses in the dark, so they had to start around 9…

As a non-American I find this interesting, that school start times would be decided based on availability of buses. Here in Australia, most schools don't own their own buses (I see a few expensive private schools do). Buses are provided by private bus companies and/or by a government-owned bus company (depending on who provides regular non-school bus services in the area). The bus fare is either paid by the student's…

In America, most areas (even many cities) lack public bus infrastructure with the reliability or capacity to serve this role. However, in cities that do, busing is often outsourced to public transit - each student in my city gets a bus pass with their student ID.

Re: California’s new law bans schools from starting before 8am

#77

My high school started at 7am. I also took the bus; which picked up around 6:15am; so I usually woke up around 5:45am during the week. I would often nod off during my first or second period; and routinely took 2-3 hour naps when I got home from school; which screwed up my ability to fall asleep early at night or get much homework done. I sometimes wonder what my academics would have been like if I was actually awake…

I've always been confused by TV shows showing kids leaving for school and it's bright outside with the whole family awake. Growing up, it was dark when we got up for school and just barely sun up (depending on the season still dark) by the time we left to get on the bus.

And mom is fixing bacon and eggs and no one is eating, dad is seated with the morning paper with his tie on. Mom in her robe or apron is the stove happily serving everyone.

Re: California’s new law bans schools from starting before 8am

#78
Public schools are a cancer. They are worse for your intellectual development than just being left alone. They actually damage your mind by suffocating you of free thought and experimentation. And in the name of doing this, they pile on the stress and expose you to viscous bullies. The kids run these schools now, they are closer to day-care centers or zoos than schools. The teachers just watch idly while their students succumb to the horrible circumstances that they are forced into. I know because it happened to me. American public schools in particular are a disgrace. And to top it all off they woke me up at 6AM 5.5 days a week which was never necessary and has been shown to be detrimental to students wellbeing. God damn if there is one thing in this world that I resent it is the mother fucking public schools. God fucking damn them.

Re: California’s new law bans schools from starting before 8am

#79

My high school started at 7am. I also took the bus; which picked up around 6:15am; so I usually woke up around 5:45am during the week. I would often nod off during my first or second period; and routinely took 2-3 hour naps when I got home from school; which screwed up my ability to fall asleep early at night or get much homework done. I sometimes wonder what my academics would have been like if I was actually awake…

As someone who lives in a country where schools all uniformly started at 9:00 am (i'm probably wrong on that, but lets just go with it), what's the social-background/theoretical reason for starting the school day at 7:00am? From the outside that just seems absolutely bonkers?

Not knowing the real reason, I suspect it's so that parents can drive their children to school before starting their commutes to work. What proportion of kids do you reckon walk/bike/transit to school in your country?

Re: California’s new law bans schools from starting before 8am

#80

My high school started at 7am. I also took the bus; which picked up around 6:15am; so I usually woke up around 5:45am during the week. I would often nod off during my first or second period; and routinely took 2-3 hour naps when I got home from school; which screwed up my ability to fall asleep early at night or get much homework done. I sometimes wonder what my academics would have been like if I was actually awake…

I've always been confused by TV shows showing kids leaving for school and it's bright outside with the whole family awake. Growing up, it was dark when we got up for school and just barely sun up (depending on the season still dark) by the time we left to get on the bus.

Geographical latitude can make a big difference. Right now, there is a 30 minute difference between sunrise in Los Angeles (6:59am) and Seattle (7:29am).

Given that most US television programming has historically been produced in Los Angeles, it's not surprising that we should see daylight more commonly depicted during waking hours than what many Americans experience.

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