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California’s new law bans schools from starting before 8am

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Re: California’s new law bans schools from starting before 8am

#61

Post by topkai22 »

This is a great move by California. My family engaged with school district officials a few times on why we started school so early, when there is so much research showing it is harmful for teenager. The answer we got was... buses and sports. And little kids.

Basically, the district needed to make sure that elementary school kids weren't walking to school or waiting for buses in the dark, so they had to start around 9a at the earliest. Since they needed to share the buses, they couldn't start all grade levels at the same time.

The reason why they went 725a, 750a, and 9a instead of something like 8a, 9a, 930a is that if you started Jr high or High school at 930a, they wouldn't start after school activities till 4p and would go after dark in the winter.

This always seemed an insane argument to me, but was said multiple times. My home district looks to still use the same bell schedule too.

Re: California’s new law bans schools from starting before 8am

#62

Post by driverdan »

Alupis wrote: post #57
briandear wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This has been driven by earlier and earlier school start times What about later and later bed times?

> What about later and later bed times? This is the real factor. When I was a kid - it was in bed, lights out and go to sleep at 9pm the latest during school nights - strictly enforced by my parents. Now I regularly see small children (< 10 years old) out at the store past 10pm or 11pm on school nights.

I highly doubt you went to bed at 9pm when you were in high school.

Re: California’s new law bans schools from starting before 8am

#63

Post by freehunter »

non-entity wrote: post #5
socalnate1 wrote: post #3

My high school started at 7am. I also took the bus; which picked up around 6:15am; so I usually woke up around 5:45am during the week. I would often nod off during my first or second period; and routinely took 2-3 hour naps when I got home from school; which screwed up my ability to fall asleep early at night or get much homework done. I sometimes wonder what my academics would have been like if I was actually awake…

I've always been confused by TV shows showing kids leaving for school and it's bright outside with the whole family awake. Growing up, it was dark when we got up for school and just barely sun up (depending on the season still dark) by the time we left to get on the bus.

The simple answer is that TV shows are easier to watch if the events take place in the daytime. That's where the suspension of disbelief comes in.

Re: California’s new law bans schools from starting before 8am

#64

Post by Alupis »

driverdan wrote: post #62
Alupis wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What about later and later bed times? This is the real factor. When I was a kid - it was in bed, lights out and go to sleep at 9pm the latest during school nights - strictly enforced by my parents. Now I regularly see small children (< 10 years old) out at the store past 10pm or 11pm on school nights.

I highly doubt you went to bed at 9pm when you were in high school.

Junior and Senior year, I had a lot more freedom - yes, but not in the 5th grade.

I also had my own car Junior/Senior year and drove myself to school... and if I was late I had to deal with the consequences both at school and at home.

I also had a "Zero Period" starting at 7am - so ya, I still went to bed pretty early, even when it was my decision.

Re: California’s new law bans schools from starting before 8am

#65

Post by newnewpdro »

cylentwolf wrote: post #42
newnewpdro wrote: post #38

I used to get up well before the sun rose for private school, it wasn't a big deal, we just went to bed earlier than most. It was nice to have more time to myself before parents got home from work. It seems strange for the state to be meddling in this.

A bunch of studies came out saying that students are better with more sleep and generally waking up after 7 is best so we get this law. The problem here is that I am betting that the kids still get home before their parents from work and now they will have to start after their parents leave for work so it will put an economic crunch on dual working parents.

Why don't kids just go to sleep earlier?

Isn't part of raising children teaching them self-discipline? Things like putting down the electronic gadgets at night, not consuming stimulating food/drinks in the evening, etc.

It's shit like this that makes California look so ridiculous to the rest of the nation.

Re: California’s new law bans schools from starting before 8am

#66

Post by carapace »

All this commotion around what time to begin soul-crushing conformity factory amuses me grimly. Studies show children are slightly less psychologically crippled for life if you let them sleep in for an hour before putting them in the electric Skinner Box. Terrific.

Re: California’s new law bans schools from starting before 8am

#67

Post by skissane »

topkai22 wrote: post #61

This is a great move by California. My family engaged with school district officials a few times on why we started school so early, when there is so much research showing it is harmful for teenager. The answer we got was... buses and sports. And little kids. Basically, the district needed to make sure that elementary school kids weren't walking to school or waiting for buses in the dark, so they had to start around 9…

As a non-American I find this interesting, that school start times would be decided based on availability of buses.

Here in Australia, most schools don't own their own buses (I see a few expensive private schools do). Buses are provided by private bus companies and/or by a government-owned bus company (depending on who provides regular non-school bus services in the area). The bus fare is either paid by the student's parents, or else by the government, depending on factors like how long it would take the student to walk, how old the student is, whether they have a disability, etc. The government subsidises buses for all school students equally, irrespective of whether they attend private schools or government-run schools. I don't know how exactly schools decide their start times, but I doubt bus availability would have much to do with it. Bus availability is something for bus companies to worry about, not schools.

Re: California’s new law bans schools from starting before 8am

#68

Post by colordrops »

driverdan wrote: post #60
jumpingmice wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t get how this is supposed to work with sports and other activities. In high school I had water polo/swimming practice mornings at 6:15. Is that now illegal?

It should be. There's a lot of research showing that kids need 8+ hours of sleep even more than adults.

Why can't you get 8+ hours of sleep if you have practice at 6:15?

Re: California’s new law bans schools from starting before 8am

#69

Post by topkai22 »

dillon wrote: post #10

My mother works for a school district in California. There was an open hearing around moving the starting school time from 8:00 am to 7:00 am. There's been countless research showing that this is generally bad for children to wake up this early (I'm sorry for not linking a reference). At the hearing, there are some words that go something like "Children come first" printed on some wall in a large font. My mother made…

I'm also pretty sure at the higher grade levels (Middle to high school) it is partially about keeping other professions out of sports coaching. If high school starts at 930a and ends at 4p, an awful lot of working professionals could still be there by 415-430p to coach. When high school let out at 245, it's a lot harder.

Re: California’s new law bans schools from starting before 8am

#70

Post by colordrops »

The implied assumption in all this discussion is that everyone stays up late so 7am doesn't work. Perhaps the question should be why society is so geared for waking hours shifted partly into the night. Perhaps people should wake with the sun and sleep soon after dark. But so much entertainment is scheduled during the evening, and everyone is so deeply entrenched in their habits.
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