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Most first-time visitors to Japan are struck by how clean the country is

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Re: Most first-time visitors to Japan are struck by how clean the country is

#71
Because people clean it constantly. I still find it amazing how many people I see cleaning when I'm in Tokyo. I was in a store mid-morning and a man was vacuuming. I walked by again in the afternoon and I noticed he was vacuuming again. In the west, that happens once/day after the store closes. There it was continuous. But nothing blew my mind more than when I was on a dirt walking trail and there was a man sweeping twigs and leaves off the trail.

As much as that surprised me, it also kind of didn't because there are people working everywhere on everything all the time. The number of concrete mixers driving around was amazing. Infrastructure is never finished and always seems to be well funded. I feel kind of embarrassed when I see Japanese people visiting my city, like they've come to some kind of pioneer town with our litter everywhere, far too many cars for the available roads and with our laughably inadequate public transit infrastructure.

Re: Most first-time visitors to Japan are struck by how clean the country is

#72
post #55

American (US) in Tokyo for the first time here. About an hour ago (10:30 pm here) I saw two men with a bucket and washcloth scrubbing the floor right next to Shibuya Crossing ("the busiest crosswalk on the world"). Moments before that a man was sweeping a walkway between passer-bys). The clothing store withers swept each changing room in between guests. Though a block away was the smoking area, littered with thousand…

> Another fascinating thing is how escalators have two lanes, one for walking and one for standing. Why doesn't everyone so this?! It's so perfect! Turns out, strangely, that it actually reduces throughput compared to just having everyone stand. So not exactly perfect I guess. But yea I agree in the general matter. When my MIL (a master organizer) visited Japan she thought that was great.

Even if it does reduce throughput, which from what I've seen comes in waves (after disembarking a train), the people who are okay standing there get to stand without being pushed, while those that are in a hurry get to hurry without pushing. Not everything has to be at max efficiency all the time, sometimes the optimal solution is relative.

Re: Most first-time visitors to Japan are struck by how clean the country is

#73
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Another fascinating thing is how escalators have two lanes, one for walking and one for standing. Why doesn't everyone so this?! It's so perfect! Turns out, strangely, that it actually reduces throughput compared to just having everyone stand. So not exactly perfect I guess. But yea I agree in the general matter. When my MIL (a master organizer) visited Japan she thought that was great.

That's generally the custom in the US as well.

Where in the US have you seen this? I've never seen it happen!

Re: Most first-time visitors to Japan are struck by how clean the country is

#74
post #5

Undiluted orientalism. I was in Osaka this weekend and litter is everywhere. By far one of the dirtiest major cities I’ve seen in East Asia. In the city I live in in Japan, the rice fields are full of coffee cans, plastic bottles, and bento packaging thrown out from cars. Streets are covered in cigarette butts and somehow I see natto containers in the middle of nowhere. Going hiking, I see tea bottles and plastic bag…

I live in Japan as well.

Hiking.. have you actually hiked anywhere in else in the world? Most places you can fill a garbage bag in an hour just walking on a trail. Took my climbing friends from Canada on a long Hike in Kita Alps, they brought a garbage bag as they always do to gather other peoples trash. We managed to find 2 empty water bottles in 3 days having covered close to 50km. See the campsites near huts after people leave in the morning they are EMPTY.

Try camping at a car camp sites.. now compare that to the clusterfuck of drunks, blaring music, trash, puke piss, shit that you get in NA. Went to Ishikawa for a week this summer camped by the sea, huge camp site tons of people actually very nice. Same thing in US? God fucking help you. This is why they actually don’t have assigned lots for tents, in Canada people would get killed every long weekend if anyone was dumb to try that(car camping)

Of course there is garbage in cities in some places but compared to vast majority of the world it is clean. They actually clean public toilets.. it is a miracle.

Re: Most first-time visitors to Japan are struck by how clean the country is

#75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I was in Osaka this weekend and litter is everywhere While I generally agree, the funny part about this is that it’s not uncommon in Japan for people to refer to people from Osaka as being “not Japanese.”

i see every country has its own florida

Osaka holds a strange place in Japanese culture. It is considered distinctly “un-Japanese,” but still at the same time is famous for producing all kinds of creative types (comedians, musicians, artists). And its accent is generally considered charming, if “inappropriate” for formal discourse.

As an American, I’ve always felt more comfortable there because it’s way less uptight and rule-bound than other parts of Japan.

Re: Most first-time visitors to Japan are struck by how clean the country is

#76

The cleanliness is impressive, but what impressed me even more was the efficiency. One morning in Tokyo, I saw construction workers starting to dig up a street. It was a large operation, they were exposing some massive pipes, and there were a few policemen, politely pointing pedestrians to a way around the site. In the evening I went the same way again, to see how far they had gotten with the digging. However, there…

You don't know if it was: A) just an inspection B) regulated to the same degree as in Germany (i.e. digging a hole and covering it up is easy if don't have rules) C) succesful D) done properly

Those are some rude assumptions, frankly. Yes they must be not as civilized as great Germany.

Re: Most first-time visitors to Japan are struck by how clean the country is

#77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was in Tokyo and Osaka these last weeks, and China before Tokyo. Landing in Tokyo after China was magical. People didn't shout in public or have their phones blaring. They let people disembark trains instead of just barging in as soon as the train doors open, and they queue neatly for those doors. And yes everything was clean and tidy. But the touristy area of Osaka was back to being dreadful. People cutting you of…

> People didn't shout in public or have their phones blaring. Yet Japan is a very noisy country. Store clerks shouting irasshaimase like robots, speaking elevators, politians in campaign and their cars with mega-phone, etc. added to paper thin (sometimes literally) walls make it sometime painful to live here.

I wonder if that's because so many other things are super quiet. The trains seem whisper quiet compared to our trains in the west. The elevators, when they're not talking, are silent. Everything seems to be perfectly lubricated and maintained to the point where things that seem loud maybe only seem loud because they're not silent?

Re: Most first-time visitors to Japan are struck by how clean the country is

#78

The cleanliness is impressive, but what impressed me even more was the efficiency. One morning in Tokyo, I saw construction workers starting to dig up a street. It was a large operation, they were exposing some massive pipes, and there were a few policemen, politely pointing pedestrians to a way around the site. In the evening I went the same way again, to see how far they had gotten with the digging. However, there…

You would find the same in Central London, but not somewhere suburban. It's more a function of the size of the city, at least in rich countries with a functioning public service.

San Francisco streets seem to take years to be repaired.

Re: Most first-time visitors to Japan are struck by how clean the country is

#79
post #66
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Another fascinating thing is how escalators have two lanes, one for walking and one for standing. Why doesn't everyone so this?! It's so perfect! Turns out, strangely, that it actually reduces throughput compared to just having everyone stand. So not exactly perfect I guess. But yea I agree in the general matter. When my MIL (a master organizer) visited Japan she thought that was great.

> Turns out, strangely, that it actually reduces throughput compared to just having everyone stand Wait, what? How can this be true? Imagine an escalator w/ both lanes filled with people just standing. Now imagine the left lane starts walking: clearly, higher throughput. Now, maybe you're imagining a scenario where people don't want to walk. Now everyone stands on the right, and the left lane is completely empty. OK,…

My first reaction to learning this was also about the same, haha.

The issue with the "everyone starts walking" is the same reason why stationary cars are closer together than moving cars. If people walked with military trained precision you could get the same density and vastly higher throughput by walking. But for civilian strangers, it turns out two lanes of standing gives high enough density to trump the increased speed of walking, in terms of total throughput. I'm fairly certain there's even a study showing this. They tested it in london underground at least.

But yes, it's certainly better for the few walkers.

Re: Most first-time visitors to Japan are struck by how clean the country is

#80
post #55

American (US) in Tokyo for the first time here. About an hour ago (10:30 pm here) I saw two men with a bucket and washcloth scrubbing the floor right next to Shibuya Crossing ("the busiest crosswalk on the world"). Moments before that a man was sweeping a walkway between passer-bys). The clothing store withers swept each changing room in between guests. Though a block away was the smoking area, littered with thousand…

> Another fascinating thing is how escalators have two lanes, one for walking and one for standing. Why doesn't everyone so this?! It's so perfect! Turns out, strangely, that it actually reduces throughput compared to just having everyone stand. So not exactly perfect I guess. But yea I agree in the general matter. When my MIL (a master organizer) visited Japan she thought that was great.

I guess, that set up is optimized for latency and not throughput, which really makes sense.
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