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Apple's list of 235 apps that are incompatible with macOS Catalina

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Re: Apple's list of 235 apps that are incompatible with macOS Catalina

#71
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unless you have shares in Apple your whole point is invalid, you're looking to this from Apple point of view which is very good for her business but not mine, i care about the company that give me the best solutions to my problems not the company that's can milk me the last day of my life.

Not having to worry about yet another security vulnerability caused by 10 year old code does impact me. It’s also nice to have other Apple products that MS could never produce because they worshipped at the alter of backwards compatibility. Running outdated code on a bloated operating system doesn’t benefit me.

>Not having to worry about yet another security vulnerability caused by 10 year old code does impact me.

10 year old code is insecure as opposed to the just-written code that replaces it?

Re: Apple's list of 235 apps that are incompatible with macOS Catalina

#72
post #23

I can understand eliminating CarbonLib support, though I would have made CarbonLib an optional component you needed to install on the OS a couple years ago to make it clear this was now an optional component that may no longer be supported in the near future. I also don't get why they would eliminate all 32-bit userspace support though - like why eliminate support for 32-bit Cocoa apps, and I think Apple made a mista…

My guess: The binary translation support they’re going to build into ARM Macs will exclusively support x64, including low-cost bridging between x64 application code and ARM64 library code. Not to mention Apple never leaves deprecated runtimes around for more than a few years. Once 64-bit Carbon was canned the writing was on the wall.

Thats a fair idea, I believe x86-64 is less complex with fewer addressing modes than x86 is. So that makes sense.

I'm still not sure about how I feel about an ARM laptop, I'm not opposed though.

Re: Apple's list of 235 apps that are incompatible with macOS Catalina

#73
post #2

This is why Microsoft is the better long-term play: Backwards compatibility -- their commitment to the investment of labor. If you build your software on Apple, there almost certainly will come a point in the future where your code will cease to work. Microsoft has made a commitment to backward compatibility. It's such a huge benefit. I have code that has continued to run, untouched, for decades . I don't have to upg…

And how much has it cost Microsoft? Apple was able to successfully take the base of MacOS and port it’s operating system to a much lower spec phone back in 2007 and came to dominate the smart phone market (in profit they only thing that matters), the tablet market where MS failed repeatedly, not to mention it was able to port the base OS to everything from Watches and TV set top boxes - all things that Microsoft trie…

It's worth considering the different markets here. Raymond Chen [0] posted this in 2006 - "On the importance of backwards compatibility for large corporations" [1]

> Representatives from the IT department of a major worldwide corporation came to Redmond and took time out of their busy schedule to give a talk on how their operations are set up. I was phenomenally impressed. These people know their stuff. Definitely a world-class operation. One of the tidbits of information they shared with us is some numbers about the programs they have to support. Their operations division is responsible for 9,000 different install scripts for their employees around the world.

> That was not a typo.

> Nine thousand.

> This highlighted for me the fact that backwards compatibility is crucial for adoption in the corporate world. Do the math. Suppose they could install, test and debug ten programs each business day, in my opinion, a very optimistic estimate. Even at that rate, it would take them three years to get through all their scripts. This isn’t a company that bought some software ten years ago and don’t have the source code. They have the source code for all of their scripts. They have people who understand how the scripts work. They are not just on the ball; they are all over the ball. And even then, it would take them three years to go through and check (and possibly fix) each one.

> Oh, did I mention that four hundred of those programs are 16-bit?

16-bit. Ten years after Windows 95 came out.

[0] A great source of backwards compatibility stories.

[1] https://devblogs.microsoft.com/oldnewthing/20061106-01/?p=29...

Re: Apple's list of 235 apps that are incompatible with macOS Catalina

#74
post #2

This is why Microsoft is the better long-term play: Backwards compatibility -- their commitment to the investment of labor. If you build your software on Apple, there almost certainly will come a point in the future where your code will cease to work. Microsoft has made a commitment to backward compatibility. It's such a huge benefit. I have code that has continued to run, untouched, for decades . I don't have to upg…

I have a 32-bit application I use regularly to interface with old hardware (which isn't on the list incidentally; I suspect there are many other niche applications like this). The hardware vendor isn't going to re-write it. As such I have to... 1) Avoid MacOS upgrades forever, or 2) Let the hardware become nearly impossible to use (there are workarounds on the device itself, but it's really painful to use), or 3) Wri…

Is it possible to virtualization an older release of OS X and run your app? It might be hard to find an image but it can be done. I have a 2011 MBP that bit the dust and I’ve seen been able to virtualize OS X (not sure about MacOS) and load a back up from Time Machine.

Re: Apple's list of 235 apps that are incompatible with macOS Catalina

#75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a 32-bit application I use regularly to interface with old hardware (which isn't on the list incidentally; I suspect there are many other niche applications like this). The hardware vendor isn't going to re-write it. As such I have to... 1) Avoid MacOS upgrades forever, or 2) Let the hardware become nearly impossible to use (there are workarounds on the device itself, but it's really painful to use), or 3) Wri…

Have you taken a look at Bitwig Studio? Runs natively on Linux.

Not yet, I'll give it a look.

Re: Apple's list of 235 apps that are incompatible with macOS Catalina

#76
post #2

This is why Microsoft is the better long-term play: Backwards compatibility -- their commitment to the investment of labor. If you build your software on Apple, there almost certainly will come a point in the future where your code will cease to work. Microsoft has made a commitment to backward compatibility. It's such a huge benefit. I have code that has continued to run, untouched, for decades . I don't have to upg…

Is this really true? I feel like I keep hearing about how $companyX is still on Windows 95/98/XP/7 and old software is often cited as a reason for not upgrading.

Re: Apple's list of 235 apps that are incompatible with macOS Catalina

#77

Funny thing about games: most revenue happens soon after release. It's like movies. A game from several years ago usually has low ongoing revenue, so there's little profit in updating it for a new OS. Many Mac games will just die. Especially indies, where the creator might have already moved on. Do you own any nice but not very successful Mac games? They'll die. This move destroys the reputation of Mac as a game plat…

Time to run them in a VM with and old OS the same as older games?

Re: Apple's list of 235 apps that are incompatible with macOS Catalina

#78
That this is even remotely acceptable is a sign of how unidealistic the industry has become, compared to Java of 20 years ago which promised write once, run anywhere.

If you did however stick to pure Java 20 years ago, your app probably runs fine now. That is the way things should be. This compatibility breaking from Apple is just a slap in the face.

Re: Apple's list of 235 apps that are incompatible with macOS Catalina

#79
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel the same. I started a project just four years ago, and now I feel that I'll need to rewrite a huge portion of the graphics code to work with future Mac versions. I also have a lesser fear that in order for my application to work on some future version of Windows, I'll need to deal with code signing and directory access rights nonsense in order for customers to think that the software "works properly". But that…

Why should I trust your application to run rampant on my computer? Since when was it a bad thing to isolate what an application can do? Even if you aren’t being purposefully malicious and being sloppy you can still cause damage. Look at what happen with the Google Chrome installer on Macs that had system integrity protection turned off. https://support.google.com/chrome/thread/15235262?hl=en

It's nonsense because it didn't exist before. Imagine you're a long-time user of my software. You upgrade your operating system (because's Apple's marketing tells you to) and find that my software doesn't work anymore. Who made the change? Apple. Who do customers complain to? Me. Despite any argument, Apple's change has cost me $1000+ of development costs for users to continue using my software. Apple is not my customer, and I don't feel that I owe it a penny. If MacOS didn't exist, it'd only make my life easier. If this change only affected new users, I'd have no complaint.
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